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This is very much like sports - very few make it to the top, and it's kind of subsidised by the ones coming up or just idly watching. Unlike actual sport, the d

This is very much like sports - very few make it to the top, and it's kind of subsidised by the ones coming up or just idly watching. Unlike actual sport, the disciplines here change rapidly, in spite of Blizzard's best efforts, World of Warcraft numbers are rapidly dwindling so a WoW start will pretty much have to start from scratch in another game or quit streaming as a career move. Game developers or even petty missteps can have disastrous consequences for streamers. Game developers can, for example ban streaming altogether, or request takedown with their content selectively. This is a 'career' but with no major prospects and if one was to put equivalnet amount of time in another field, say learning how deep learning works, the rewards will be far greater on average. I also think that 'pro' streamers no longer enjoy the games they play for "18 hours a day" and can't afford casual games with the camera turned off. It's a huge 'big brother' in their lives.

snoman 9y ago
> ... if one was to put equivalnet amount of time in another field, say learning how deep learning works... I see what you're getting at, but these are two different things. The vast majority of humanity as a whole is just not capable of sitting down and chewing through a deep learning textbook or anything of the sort. What you're ignoring is just how accessible streaming is as an income method. Up until recently, all you needed was the equipment (< $2000-3000 - sometimes paid for by sponsors, often equipment that people already have in modern times) and to be half-way charismatic in order to get into it. Add in the promise of big money and 'superstars' and now every kid wants to ~be in a band~ be a streamer.
- xchaotic 9y ago
  " The vast majority of humanity as a whole is just not capable of sitting down and chewing through a deep learning textbook or anything of the sort." they don't currently, and probably we don't need millions of data science major, but somehow grinding through the game for thousands of hours is doable. I'd say let's gamify learning and we will have a whole new supply of world class scientist streaming their research on sci-twitch.tv ;)
  - InitialLastName 9y ago
    I've recently been watching EEVBlog videos, mostly for the sake of watching someone else route PCB's. Learned lots of good tricks that way too.
    - Hasz 9y ago
      The EEVblog is great. Some of the older videos have some DFM, switcher layout, etc that is equally invaluable.
      - JabavuAdams 9y ago
        "DFM" stands for "Design For Manufacturing" ? https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1143825 https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1143825
  - ivanhoe 9y ago
    It's not different then saying: Let's gamify accounting and we'll have tones of people watching streams of someone doing taxes. Doesn't really work that way. Different people have different interests, but science is a niche and will always be on a tail of that bell curve. If you try to make it more appealing to the masses you end up with shitty shows about blowing up things or dangerous animals or ghosts & mysteries.
  - Urbanxassassin 9y ago
    While nice, that's a pretty disconnected perspective from society. Sports and the industries around them are so big for a reason vs say major league programming.
thefalcon 9y ago
That's why you build a personal brand while you're riding the coattails of a popular game. See Day9, who plays whatever game he feels like playing on his scheduled "day off" and streams it. He definitely has fun, even if it doesn't make him money (he recently streamed Mario, for example, which Nintendo [probably] claimed the revenue for) he's still building his personal brand and personal audience. His fans will follow him no matter what game he starts playing, because they're following him. But you're right that it's a hit-based system and if you don't become a hit (which requires a lot of effort and a lot of luck) then you're going to starve trying to "play video games for a living."
- ben_jones 9y ago
  Yup. It's a new "field" if you will, and a lot of people are getting hurt during the birth phase. That said I've noticed streamers focusing more on being game agnostic, they'll demo new games and take note how much of their fan base follows. If the new game is a success they'll keep at it, if not they'll migrate back.
- mastax 9y ago
  > he recently streamed Mario, for example, which Nintendo [probably] claimed the revenue for They can claim ad revenue, but they can't take donations or (I hope) subscriptions.
- rspeer 9y ago
  I don't think anything is different about playing Nintendo games on Twitch. There's a streamer (iateyourpie) who makes a living from mostly playing Mario games, and usually not even being a speedrun WR-holder, just being an entertaining person who markets himself well.
asdfaefasdf 9y ago
That's foolish. The lead up time to become an expert at deep learning: Probably 6 years minimum. No one hires people to do deep learning with 0 years experience. Very few people with the skills you assume by default (basically anyone with programming skills) would be convinced to leave their cooshy jobs, but plenty of people with no skills or prospects would.
mastazi 9y ago
> World of Warcraft numbers are rapidly dwindling so a WoW start will pretty much have to start from scratch in another game or quit streaming as a career move. It seems you are conflating Twitch streaming with e-sports, they are two very different things. Becoming a successful Twitch streamer doesn't necessarily require extraordinary skills in terms of playing a given game; switching to a new game wouldn't be that big of a deal and some streamers switch regularly on a weekly or daily basis (e.g. my favourite streamer, who is a full-time Twitch streamer and has 175k followers, plays more or less regularly at least 5-6 different games). I agree with you on the "big brother" part, but then again this is a characteristic of any career path that can potentially lead to notoriety (acting, pro sports, etc).
- huckyaus 9y ago
  I don't think he's conflating the two at all. He's just pointing out that the vast majority of streamers start out by building a following around a single game, and very few succeed enough to make decent money and jump from game to game like your favourite streamer does.
- Vadoff 9y ago
  Yes, it's more akin to being a top youtuber. Being entertaining is the number one factor, being good at the game is a second.
  - bfuller 9y ago
    and cleavage is extremely effective
- nightcracker 9y ago
  You are wrong about "switching games as a streamer isn't a big deal". Someone who does that is called a variety streamer, and there are very few streamers that have success with it. Most streamers I talk to lose the majority of their audience when they switch games.
  - Ntrails 9y ago

snoman 9y ago

> ... if one was to put equivalnet amount of time in another field, say learning how deep learning works... I see what you're getting at, but these are two different things. The vast majority of humanity as a whole is just not capable of sitting down and chewing through a deep learning textbook or anything of the sort. What you're ignoring is just how accessible streaming is as an income method. Up until recently, all you needed was the equipment (< $2000-3000 - sometimes paid for by sponsors, often equipment that people already have in modern times) and to be half-way charismatic in order to get into it. Add in the promise of big money and 'superstars' and now every kid wants to ~be in a band~ be a streamer.

xchaotic 9y ago
" The vast majority of humanity as a whole is just not capable of sitting down and chewing through a deep learning textbook or anything of the sort." they don't currently, and probably we don't need millions of data science major, but somehow grinding through the game for thousands of hours is doable. I'd say let's gamify learning and we will have a whole new supply of world class scientist streaming their research on sci-twitch.tv ;)
- InitialLastName 9y ago
  I've recently been watching EEVBlog videos, mostly for the sake of watching someone else route PCB's. Learned lots of good tricks that way too.
  - Hasz 9y ago
    The EEVblog is great. Some of the older videos have some DFM, switcher layout, etc that is equally invaluable.
    - JabavuAdams 9y ago
      "DFM" stands for "Design For Manufacturing" ? https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1143825 https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1143825
- ivanhoe 9y ago
  It's not different then saying: Let's gamify accounting and we'll have tones of people watching streams of someone doing taxes. Doesn't really work that way. Different people have different interests, but science is a niche and will always be on a tail of that bell curve. If you try to make it more appealing to the masses you end up with shitty shows about blowing up things or dangerous animals or ghosts & mysteries.
- Urbanxassassin 9y ago
  While nice, that's a pretty disconnected perspective from society. Sports and the industries around them are so big for a reason vs say major league programming.

thefalcon 9y ago

That's why you build a personal brand while you're riding the coattails of a popular game. See Day9, who plays whatever game he feels like playing on his scheduled "day off" and streams it. He definitely has fun, even if it doesn't make him money (he recently streamed Mario, for example, which Nintendo [probably] claimed the revenue for) he's still building his personal brand and personal audience. His fans will follow him no matter what game he starts playing, because they're following him. But you're right that it's a hit-based system and if you don't become a hit (which requires a lot of effort and a lot of luck) then you're going to starve trying to "play video games for a living."

ben_jones 9y ago
Yup. It's a new "field" if you will, and a lot of people are getting hurt during the birth phase. That said I've noticed streamers focusing more on being game agnostic, they'll demo new games and take note how much of their fan base follows. If the new game is a success they'll keep at it, if not they'll migrate back.
mastax 9y ago
> he recently streamed Mario, for example, which Nintendo [probably] claimed the revenue for They can claim ad revenue, but they can't take donations or (I hope) subscriptions.
rspeer 9y ago
I don't think anything is different about playing Nintendo games on Twitch. There's a streamer (iateyourpie) who makes a living from mostly playing Mario games, and usually not even being a speedrun WR-holder, just being an entertaining person who markets himself well.

asdfaefasdf 9y ago

That's foolish. The lead up time to become an expert at deep learning: Probably 6 years minimum. No one hires people to do deep learning with 0 years experience. Very few people with the skills you assume by default (basically anyone with programming skills) would be convinced to leave their cooshy jobs, but plenty of people with no skills or prospects would.

mastazi 9y ago

> World of Warcraft numbers are rapidly dwindling so a WoW start will pretty much have to start from scratch in another game or quit streaming as a career move. It seems you are conflating Twitch streaming with e-sports, they are two very different things. Becoming a successful Twitch streamer doesn't necessarily require extraordinary skills in terms of playing a given game; switching to a new game wouldn't be that big of a deal and some streamers switch regularly on a weekly or daily basis (e.g. my favourite streamer, who is a full-time Twitch streamer and has 175k followers, plays more or less regularly at least 5-6 different games). I agree with you on the "big brother" part, but then again this is a characteristic of any career path that can potentially lead to notoriety (acting, pro sports, etc).

huckyaus 9y ago
I don't think he's conflating the two at all. He's just pointing out that the vast majority of streamers start out by building a following around a single game, and very few succeed enough to make decent money and jump from game to game like your favourite streamer does.
Vadoff 9y ago
Yes, it's more akin to being a top youtuber. Being entertaining is the number one factor, being good at the game is a second.
- bfuller 9y ago
  and cleavage is extremely effective
nightcracker 9y ago
You are wrong about "switching games as a streamer isn't a big deal". Someone who does that is called a variety streamer, and there are very few streamers that have success with it. Most streamers I talk to lose the majority of their audience when they switch games.
- Ntrails 9y ago