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Well, in this case it looks like they're competing with the government. Still, I'm not a fan of what they're trying to do. Of course, the Accountant's lobby a

Well, in this case it looks like they're competing with the government. Still, I'm not a fan of what they're trying to do. Of course, the Accountant's lobby and Congress have been conspiring to provide lifetime employment for tax preparers for decades, so it's really not anything new. If we really wanted to save money, we'd reform the tax system, not provide band-aids like this program.

sliverstorm 16y ago
Unless we shift to a HIGHLY regressive tax system, I don't see how we can simplify the tax system more than incrementally.
- ams6110 16y ago
  A tax system with progressive rates does not need to be complicated. The complexity comes from insane number of special taxes and exceptions built into the system in an attempt to manipulate people's behavior or as political favors to certain groups.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Is this a bad thing? Is saying "we'll give you $5000 off your taxes if you buy a hybrid car" worse than saying "we'll throw you in jail unless you buy a hybrid car"? That's the alternative. (You could argue that we don't need the government because humans are self-organizing and all that, but do we really want to go that far?) Complicated taxes are a necessary evil. But it would be nice if the government just sent me a bill at the end of the year saying "oh hai, write us a check for $12345" and that was the end of it.
    - philwelch 16y ago
      Is there any reason the government couldn't just put a direct $5,000 subsidy on hybrid cars? Or, even better, redesign its infrastructure policy to favor energy efficiency? (Considering all the things the federal government does to encourage cheap gasoline, a $5k tax credit for cars that use slightly less gasoline is nothing.)
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
    - Retric 16y ago
      The alternative is grants paid to hybrid car manufactures or car dealership or car buyer. The only reason we don't use that far simpler system is government spending that looks like a "tax break" is some sort of fetish among the Republican party. Edit: Democrats often do the same thing, just not to the same extent.
    - orangecat 16y ago
      Is this a bad thing? Is saying "we'll give you $5000 off your taxes if you buy a hybrid car" worse than saying "we'll throw you in jail unless you buy a hybrid car"? That's the alternative. If gas consumption is too high, why not increase the gas tax and let individuals figure out the best way to deal with it? Maybe for some people the best solution is to reduce their commute rather than buy a new car.
      - m_eiman 16y ago
        That's what we're doing over here in Europe.
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      >That's the alternative. There are vastly more alternatives than that. I'm really surprised to see this post from you. You could leave income tax alone and just add in a big sales tax on non-hybrid cars, for example.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    Example of a progressive, simplified income tax form: IRS FORM A Name: ______________________________________________ Social Security Number: ___-__-____ OR State ID Number: ____________ 1. Total individual income from all sources: Records available to the IRS show your income to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 2. If line 1 is less than $33,000, enter again here. If line 1 is $33,000 or more, enter $33,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 3. If line 1 is less than $66,000 but $33,000 or more, subtract $33,000 and enter the difference here. If line 1 is $66,000 or more, enter $33,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 4. If line 1 is less than $100,000 but $66,000 or more, subtract $66,000 and enter the difference here. If line 1 is $100,000 or more, enter $34,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 5. If line 1 is less than $500,000 but $100,000 or more, subtract $100,000 and enter the difference here. If line 1 is $500,000 or more, enter $400,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 6. If line 1 is $500,000 or more, subtract $500,000 and enter the difference here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 7. Sum the following: 10% of line 2, 20% of line 3, 25% of line 4, 30% of line 5, and 40% of line 6. THIS IS YOUR TOTAL INCOME TAX. Enter it here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 8. Calculate 10% of line 1. THIS IS YOUR TOTAL SOCIAL SECURITY TAX. Enter it here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 9. Add lines 7 and 8 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. __________________ Records available to the IRS show your total tax withholding to be $XXXXXXX. If this is greater than or equal to line 9, you may submit this form for a tax refund. If this is less than line 9, submit this form along with the attached payment form below (IRS FORM P). Submit this form and any necessary payments by April 15. Forms received after April 15 are ineligible for any tax refund. If additional payment is due to the IRS but not received by April 15, penalties will be added to your tax liability, as described on IRS FORM X. FAILURE TO PAY INCOME TAXES IS A FEDERAL CRIMINAL OFFENSE PUNISHABLE BY UP TO 5 YEARS IN PRISON. "Total individual income" includes wages, salaries, tips, revenue from sale of capital assets, stock dividends, and inheritance of cash assets. It does not include acquisition of non-cash assets including real or personal property, securities, or other capital assets. However, any sale or liquidation of non-cash assets may then become subject to income tax. In general, one-time transactions of less than $1,000 may be omitted. Detailed rules are available in IRS DOCUMENT I, available at http://www.irs.gov/documents/i/ or at your local library or post office. For any recurring transactions, or one-time transactions of $1,000 or above, IRS Form R or O should have already been submitted to the IRS. We have enclosed copies of those forms in this mailing. If any of these forms are in error, file a copy of IRS FORM C to appeal for a correction. About one page, and in the best case you just copy down the numbers the IRS already gave you and mail it in after 5 minutes of thought. Note that the exact rate structure is an arbitrary guess on my part, but is even more progressive than the current system.
ams6110 16y ago
If we really wanted to save money, we'd reform the tax system, not provide band-aids like this program. Exactly! As a taxpayer I want the tax code to be simplified so that I don't need to use a computer or pay someone to prepare my return.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  But think about all the starving accountants. Think about their children!!!
DrJokepu 16y ago
They could compete with the government. They would need better, more integrated products for that than the tool the government offers. But of course, to do that, they would need a vision.

sliverstorm 16y ago

Unless we shift to a HIGHLY regressive tax system, I don't see how we can simplify the tax system more than incrementally.

ams6110 16y ago
A tax system with progressive rates does not need to be complicated. The complexity comes from insane number of special taxes and exceptions built into the system in an attempt to manipulate people's behavior or as political favors to certain groups.
- jrockway 16y ago
  Is this a bad thing? Is saying "we'll give you $5000 off your taxes if you buy a hybrid car" worse than saying "we'll throw you in jail unless you buy a hybrid car"? That's the alternative. (You could argue that we don't need the government because humans are self-organizing and all that, but do we really want to go that far?) Complicated taxes are a necessary evil. But it would be nice if the government just sent me a bill at the end of the year saying "oh hai, write us a check for $12345" and that was the end of it.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    Is there any reason the government couldn't just put a direct $5,000 subsidy on hybrid cars? Or, even better, redesign its infrastructure policy to favor energy efficiency? (Considering all the things the federal government does to encourage cheap gasoline, a $5k tax credit for cars that use slightly less gasoline is nothing.)
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
  - Retric 16y ago
    The alternative is grants paid to hybrid car manufactures or car dealership or car buyer. The only reason we don't use that far simpler system is government spending that looks like a "tax break" is some sort of fetish among the Republican party. Edit: Democrats often do the same thing, just not to the same extent.
  - orangecat 16y ago
    Is this a bad thing? Is saying "we'll give you $5000 off your taxes if you buy a hybrid car" worse than saying "we'll throw you in jail unless you buy a hybrid car"? That's the alternative. If gas consumption is too high, why not increase the gas tax and let individuals figure out the best way to deal with it? Maybe for some people the best solution is to reduce their commute rather than buy a new car.
    - m_eiman 16y ago
      That's what we're doing over here in Europe.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    >That's the alternative. There are vastly more alternatives than that. I'm really surprised to see this post from you. You could leave income tax alone and just add in a big sales tax on non-hybrid cars, for example.
- philwelch 16y ago
  Example of a progressive, simplified income tax form: IRS FORM A Name: ______________________________________________ Social Security Number: ___-__-____ OR State ID Number: ____________ 1. Total individual income from all sources: Records available to the IRS show your income to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 2. If line 1 is less than $33,000, enter again here. If line 1 is $33,000 or more, enter $33,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 3. If line 1 is less than $66,000 but $33,000 or more, subtract $33,000 and enter the difference here. If line 1 is $66,000 or more, enter $33,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 4. If line 1 is less than $100,000 but $66,000 or more, subtract $66,000 and enter the difference here. If line 1 is $100,000 or more, enter $34,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 5. If line 1 is less than $500,000 but $100,000 or more, subtract $100,000 and enter the difference here. If line 1 is $500,000 or more, enter $400,000 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 6. If line 1 is $500,000 or more, subtract $500,000 and enter the difference here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 7. Sum the following: 10% of line 2, 20% of line 3, 25% of line 4, 30% of line 5, and 40% of line 6. THIS IS YOUR TOTAL INCOME TAX. Enter it here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 8. Calculate 10% of line 1. THIS IS YOUR TOTAL SOCIAL SECURITY TAX. Enter it here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. _________________ 9. Add lines 7 and 8 here: Records available to the IRS show this amount to be at least $XXXXXXX. __________________ Records available to the IRS show your total tax withholding to be $XXXXXXX. If this is greater than or equal to line 9, you may submit this form for a tax refund. If this is less than line 9, submit this form along with the attached payment form below (IRS FORM P). Submit this form and any necessary payments by April 15. Forms received after April 15 are ineligible for any tax refund. If additional payment is due to the IRS but not received by April 15, penalties will be added to your tax liability, as described on IRS FORM X. FAILURE TO PAY INCOME TAXES IS A FEDERAL CRIMINAL OFFENSE PUNISHABLE BY UP TO 5 YEARS IN PRISON. "Total individual income" includes wages, salaries, tips, revenue from sale of capital assets, stock dividends, and inheritance of cash assets. It does not include acquisition of non-cash assets including real or personal property, securities, or other capital assets. However, any sale or liquidation of non-cash assets may then become subject to income tax. In general, one-time transactions of less than $1,000 may be omitted. Detailed rules are available in IRS DOCUMENT I, available at http://www.irs.gov/documents/i/ or at your local library or post office. For any recurring transactions, or one-time transactions of $1,000 or above, IRS Form R or O should have already been submitted to the IRS. We have enclosed copies of those forms in this mailing. If any of these forms are in error, file a copy of IRS FORM C to appeal for a correction. About one page, and in the best case you just copy down the numbers the IRS already gave you and mail it in after 5 minutes of thought. Note that the exact rate structure is an arbitrary guess on my part, but is even more progressive than the current system.

ams6110 16y ago

If we really wanted to save money, we'd reform the tax system, not provide band-aids like this program. Exactly! As a taxpayer I want the tax code to be simplified so that I don't need to use a computer or pay someone to prepare my return.

rdtsc 16y ago
But think about all the starving accountants. Think about their children!!!

DrJokepu 16y ago

They could compete with the government. They would need better, more integrated products for that than the tool the government offers. But of course, to do that, they would need a vision.