10 ms·

Using a throwaway account to keep things private Last year I was "sex-torted" on Facebook but not by a ring of French criminals. Instead, it was by someone I h

Using a throwaway account to keep things private Last year I was "sex-torted" on Facebook but not by a ring of French criminals. Instead, it was by someone I had chatted with on the internet years ago (while we were both still teenagers) She had recently gotten divorced and contacted me after many years away. We spoke about intimate things (I never shared intimate images, though she did) and were getting closer and closer to each other. She eventually asked me for money to cover an expense for her daughter, but I didn't send it fearing I was being scammed. In exchange, she took screengrabs of the most intimate parts of our conversations and shared them to all of my professional contacts via LinkedIn as well as friends , colleagues and family on Facebook. The experience haunts me to this day, I discussed consensual kinky stuff with her and she used this to paint me as a freak and deviant. The only people who understood it were those who had been in a similar situation or those who were in the "lifestyle" as well. Strangely, most of the support I received after the fact were women who have been similarly extorted. Men in my entourage just whispered and snickered. To this day, I still feel shame in certain circles because of what is unsaid. The police have done absolutely nothing even in the face of evidence (reports filed with local police and FBI) but it's simply not a priority. Facebook won't even pull the posts because no intimate images were actually shared and it doesn't technically violate their "guidelines" Net result: I've deleted my social profiles. Every last one of them (and feel better as a result). However, the damage is done and I'm totally still feeling PTSD as a result of the ordeal. I consider myself very tech savvy (engineer, infosec background, on the internet since the early 90's) and able to smell a scam. However, it's really really easy to fall victim to something like this. Be careful.

napa15 9y ago
Maybe you shouldnt be into unnatural affections, as the bible says.
- sctb 9y ago
  We don't do this on Hacker News, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hanklazard 9y ago
Wow, what a terrible situation, I’m sorry you’ve had to go through that. It never ceases to amaze me at how brutal and vindictive people can be, especially online. Does she even know how much this has hurt you? I could imagine someone with poor empathy making a move like that in an emotional flurry one day, then never giving it a second thought in the months and years to come. Meanwhile, you continue to suffer the effects, psychologically and socially. Horrible.
- nojvek 9y ago
  Happens quite a bit in teen circles. There is a reason why they move in droves to snapchat. Trust is complicated online.
ams6110 9y ago
Another example of how everything you post online or send in an email is there forever and can come back to haunt you. I'm sorry for your experience but hope others can learn from this.
- DanBC 9y ago
  But more importantly fuck people who kink-shame. It's just sex, and people into kink tend to have better sense of consent and mutuality.
  - mc32 9y ago
    Right but climate changes and what is acceptable and not changes over time. What was empowering in the 1970s is today something different. What is suffocating today will tomorrow be different. Mores and interpretation change over time. In other words, yesterdays actions are viewed through today's lenses.
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      >Mores and interpretation change over time. In other words, yesterdays actions are viewed through today's lenses. If only the "I have nothing to hide" crowd would understand this.
abtom 9y ago
This is something that could have happened to anyone. Not just because of misplaced trust in an online partner but because it's easy to create fake screenshots of conversations using Photoshop or simply Inspect Element. I'm interested in how you mitigated the damage once the post was published. A good strategy might have been to simply discredit it as being fake/photoshopped along with a small tutorial showing how easy it is to create (most aren't tech savvy enough to understand this already). True you'd be lying, but this is certainly not below the level of someone who's falsely accusing you.
- csydas 9y ago
  The second point is very important as currently the bar for valid proof is far too low for many people nowadays, especially given the ease with which one can edit content easily to look like it came from source. The fact that too many people happily accept as proof screenshots assembled in mspaint with red arrows drawn all over astounds me, and the furvor which follows is even more flabbergasting. I know it's likely lack of knowledge as to how easy it is to use InspectElement to make the President's most recent tweet say "I fucked a pig", but that too many don't even take the time to check whether or not it actually says that is a huge issue. Data validation can be tricky, but we're talking like the basics of just check the sources. Which of course is difficult since too many dubious reports just source spam so there's no reasonable way to easily check sources.
  - chiefalchemist 9y ago
    Not sure there is a bar for valid proof - at least in the MSM - at this point. The word of the moment seems to be allocations, and that's enough to take someone down. Add in the fact that "harassment" is defined by the receiver and the accused has no recourse but to disappear. I'm not naive. Dirty shit happens. But the current trend seems to be: guilty til proven...oh no need for proof.
  - cisanti 9y ago
    Reddit's trump criticizes trump is full for fakes and they are constantly on the front page. Same goes for "other side" who puts antifa in every shooting or crime out there, but I suspect they do it more for the lulz because media baits the Russian propaganda or not narrative, which makes these people do it even more as we all kniw if you're familiar with Chan culture.
brandon272 9y ago
I'm sorry that happened to you. Since she knew your real identity, did you know hers? Did the possibility exist that you could sue her in civil court? I don't feel like I'm the litigious type but that case seems to be begging for a legal response.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Going to court after such an episode is another traumatic experience where you have to relive the whole situation. That's why it's difficult for rape victims to go to the police or court because they have relive the trauma again in all detail.
  - segmondy 9y ago
    Court or not, you are going to relive it. Next time an old friend contacts you, you will relive it, could even be via email or phone. Someone trying to get into a relationship could be talking and getting personal and you would panic and wonder if it's a setup. You could be watching a TV show or see someone that looks like the lady. Lots of things can trigger it. Going to court won't eliminate it, but the more often people are punished for things like these, the less people will engage in such evil acts.
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      I agree that going to court is a good thing but you can't compare talking about one of the most vulnerable moments of one's life with friends to having to tell all details of the story to strangers in public while possibly being challenged by an adversarial lawyer or cops who may not believe you.
- Mz 9y ago
  Going to court to clear your name can result in the Streisand Effect. Lots of people are very judgey about sex. Letting more people know can just compound the problem, even if you win. It also is kind of like throwing good money after bad. After this has taken so much away, you are sinking more of your life into it. It can just magnify the damage. I wish there were more justice in the world. I wish fighting the good fight were more rewarding. But that is often not a pragmatic approach.
duxup 9y ago
If it makes you feel better if I got a bunch of similar content sent to me from some mystery contact about a friend... I'd just assume they were a scammer and disregard it. I wonder how many people who get sent that stuff really change their opinions about their friends, family, etc? That's not to take anything from your experience, it sounds terrible.
segmondy 9y ago
File a civil suit. For those still reading, practice social media isolation. No one on my LinkedIn is on my Facebook. Only 1 person on my LinkedIn is on my twitter and only 2 people on my facebook are on my twitter. Facebook & Linkedin are not open to public.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  This works if there are assets to be seized, or if you are independently wealthy enough to sustain a suit despite a lack of assets. Lawsuits are incredibly expensive. Figure $10k before going to trial, and $50k for a relatively simple case. Few or no lawyers will take such a case on contingency (plaintiff is not sufficiently flush). I'm not saying don't do this, but you're going to want to think through the process very carefully, and be very much aware of what the process might, or might not, produce. There are downside costs that might emerge as well, including the prospect of paying the plaintiff's legal fees, and undergoing discovery yourself. Talk to a lawyer, or several, if you like. Be aware that they also have their own incentives, and might be quite happy to run up billable hours, so long as you're good for them.
throwawaykite 9y ago
Really sorry to hear about your ordeal — I was once wrongly accused by a woman of something heinous and it took me a while to recover from the shock and PTSD. In particular this part of your post bothers me: “The experience haunts me to this day..” No - This shouldn’t be the case. You did nothing wrong. While there is no magic wand to “fix” how you feel - and esp low probability that an online post from a stranger would do anything but please consider the following strategies: 1. Try to understand shame. What is it and Why it is there? (evolutionary reasons) It might be liberating. 2. Know quite simply that the past doesn’t exist. Except In our heads. 3. Take inspiration: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37735368 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37735368 4. Try to research into revenge porn - what happened to you is very common; in some parts of the world with serious consequences for women - understanding that you are not alone (or special) might be oddly liberating. 5. Talk to someone. Maybe even a pro. Just some strategies that are available to you - hope you heal soon. (I am sure you are already trying to recover - Your message just stuck a cord and I wanted to offer advice)
- WhitneyLand 9y ago
  I think your situation is very much connected to the current wave of revelations of wrong doing against (mostly) women. Every time one of these celebrities denies a true accusation it causes a whole new wave of damage not only to the victim but, to every person who will ever have to fend off a wrongful accusation, because it muddies the waters and creates FUD. Yes, the data suggests the percentage of false accusations is small. However it burns me when people suggest bringing it up at all diminishes the bigger issue of assaults on women. In fact I think they enhance each other because they’re both about seeking clarity and justice. I’ve seriously heard people debate the death penalty by arguing, that the possibility of executing an innocent person is not one of the big issues because, that probably happens small percentage of the time. Scared the crap out of me to hear it articulated by a real person. Some media outlets have chosen to be critical of Louis CK’s response to the accusations against him. They think they are advocating for women, when actually they’re doing all of us a huge disservice. Focusing on the quality of apologies is a red herring. Only two things matter, the crime and the truth getting out about crime. Judge his apology/non apology anyway you like, at least he ended it decisively, instead of propagating it for enternity by sowing doubt.
WhitneyLand 9y ago
Do we take people too literally, when they say they care about human suffering and justice? Yes you were a victim, but not a noble victim in the eyes of most people, so that’s why hardly anyone cared. You hear people say everybody likes sex, but it’s not true. Actually everyone mostly hates sex. What they really mean is, out of one million possible sexual acts, there are 3, 6, or maybe a dozen they love, and 99.9% that they think are disgusting. The only difference between any of us is whether or not we insist that our 6 are better than everyone else’s.
tajen 9y ago
Hi. Apart from deeply empathizing with you, I have to say there are millions of men who suffer similar problems because there’s extremely little empathy for them. Ex: PyCon, James Damore and GitHub. If you want people to develop empathy for men (which are often at the bottom of the priority list, below women and dogs), MRM movements need more highly competent people and money. Check out what the CAFE organization does or the movie The Red Pill. I don’t exactly know what you should do immediately but realizing it’s a billion-people-problem is the first step.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Seems like James Damore has almost nothing to do with this scenario, not least because in his case he voluntarily shared his manifesto publicly.
  - cisanti 9y ago
    He was talking about emphaty, because media simply lied about him, without even reading his manifesto, and crucified him.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Is the party in this story lacking empathy the media? Or the guy who wrote a manifesto about how women just aren't fit for jobs as engineers, genetically?
  - musage 9y ago
    To get subsequently smeared to hell and back. Oh, and he didn't even share it publically. He shared it with an internal group discussing these issues. It was then "leaked", and everybody piled on. And you now took part in exactly that, repeating the slander.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Yeah I'm sure the guy who was immediately itching to do an interview with all the luminaries of the alt-right was a shrinking wallflower who didn't want to draw any attention to his manifesto or himself.
Mz 9y ago
Men in my entourage just whispered and snickered. It isn't manly to be a victim. The people whispering and snickering are likely either horrible people who don't get victimized because they make sure they are taking advantage of other people and leaving no openings, or they have more terrible things to hide. Snickering is a form of denial of their own guilty behaviors.
darkmighty 9y ago
You should post this verbatim on social media.
HenryBemis 9y ago
I didn't understand if in reality if it was really your old-time-friend who actually did this, or someone who got control of her account and discovered "conversations gone cold" and tried to "revive the flame". It would be interesting to know who which of these was it.
snthd 9y ago
Brutal. Thanks for the reminder. Hope things get better.
DINKDINK 9y ago
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you and yet it's a great opportunity to highlight the benefits of self-deleting messages. Specifically it's elevates the cost of an attacker being able to comb through a vast ream of documents to weaponize your seemingly 'private' communications. Though self-deleting messages (such as on Signal) can't prevent the recipient from logging all communications as the come over the wire, it does prevent an attacker from weaponizing them retrospectively.
SJWDisagree111 9y ago
You admit you like kinky/deviant sexual stuff so why do you care what others think? Well the hard truth is you are trying to dishonestly maintain your sexual market value. You know they type of girl that high value men like and you don't want to limit your options. However you are not that person. (and SJW oblivion shall commence) Also who says "my entourage" when referring to their friends?
- bfuller 9y ago
  So would you care to share your intimate details of your sex life? How about some nude photos? And you won't mind if I share all of that with your linkedin contacts? Maybe your boss? Feel free to put your money where your mouth is.
lostboys67 9y ago
Could you not use the anti stalker laws ?

napa15 9y ago

Maybe you shouldnt be into unnatural affections, as the bible says.

sctb 9y ago
We don't do this on Hacker News, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hanklazard 9y ago

Wow, what a terrible situation, I’m sorry you’ve had to go through that. It never ceases to amaze me at how brutal and vindictive people can be, especially online. Does she even know how much this has hurt you? I could imagine someone with poor empathy making a move like that in an emotional flurry one day, then never giving it a second thought in the months and years to come. Meanwhile, you continue to suffer the effects, psychologically and socially. Horrible.

nojvek 9y ago
Happens quite a bit in teen circles. There is a reason why they move in droves to snapchat. Trust is complicated online.

ams6110 9y ago

Another example of how everything you post online or send in an email is there forever and can come back to haunt you. I'm sorry for your experience but hope others can learn from this.

DanBC 9y ago
But more importantly fuck people who kink-shame. It's just sex, and people into kink tend to have better sense of consent and mutuality.
- mc32 9y ago
  Right but climate changes and what is acceptable and not changes over time. What was empowering in the 1970s is today something different. What is suffocating today will tomorrow be different. Mores and interpretation change over time. In other words, yesterdays actions are viewed through today's lenses.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    >Mores and interpretation change over time. In other words, yesterdays actions are viewed through today's lenses. If only the "I have nothing to hide" crowd would understand this.

abtom 9y ago

This is something that could have happened to anyone. Not just because of misplaced trust in an online partner but because it's easy to create fake screenshots of conversations using Photoshop or simply Inspect Element. I'm interested in how you mitigated the damage once the post was published. A good strategy might have been to simply discredit it as being fake/photoshopped along with a small tutorial showing how easy it is to create (most aren't tech savvy enough to understand this already). True you'd be lying, but this is certainly not below the level of someone who's falsely accusing you.

csydas 9y ago
The second point is very important as currently the bar for valid proof is far too low for many people nowadays, especially given the ease with which one can edit content easily to look like it came from source. The fact that too many people happily accept as proof screenshots assembled in mspaint with red arrows drawn all over astounds me, and the furvor which follows is even more flabbergasting. I know it's likely lack of knowledge as to how easy it is to use InspectElement to make the President's most recent tweet say "I fucked a pig", but that too many don't even take the time to check whether or not it actually says that is a huge issue. Data validation can be tricky, but we're talking like the basics of just check the sources. Which of course is difficult since too many dubious reports just source spam so there's no reasonable way to easily check sources.
- chiefalchemist 9y ago
  Not sure there is a bar for valid proof - at least in the MSM - at this point. The word of the moment seems to be allocations, and that's enough to take someone down. Add in the fact that "harassment" is defined by the receiver and the accused has no recourse but to disappear. I'm not naive. Dirty shit happens. But the current trend seems to be: guilty til proven...oh no need for proof.
- cisanti 9y ago
  Reddit's trump criticizes trump is full for fakes and they are constantly on the front page. Same goes for "other side" who puts antifa in every shooting or crime out there, but I suspect they do it more for the lulz because media baits the Russian propaganda or not narrative, which makes these people do it even more as we all kniw if you're familiar with Chan culture.

brandon272 9y ago

I'm sorry that happened to you. Since she knew your real identity, did you know hers? Did the possibility exist that you could sue her in civil court? I don't feel like I'm the litigious type but that case seems to be begging for a legal response.

maxxxxx 9y ago
Going to court after such an episode is another traumatic experience where you have to relive the whole situation. That's why it's difficult for rape victims to go to the police or court because they have relive the trauma again in all detail.
- segmondy 9y ago
  Court or not, you are going to relive it. Next time an old friend contacts you, you will relive it, could even be via email or phone. Someone trying to get into a relationship could be talking and getting personal and you would panic and wonder if it's a setup. You could be watching a TV show or see someone that looks like the lady. Lots of things can trigger it. Going to court won't eliminate it, but the more often people are punished for things like these, the less people will engage in such evil acts.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    I agree that going to court is a good thing but you can't compare talking about one of the most vulnerable moments of one's life with friends to having to tell all details of the story to strangers in public while possibly being challenged by an adversarial lawyer or cops who may not believe you.
Mz 9y ago
Going to court to clear your name can result in the Streisand Effect. Lots of people are very judgey about sex. Letting more people know can just compound the problem, even if you win. It also is kind of like throwing good money after bad. After this has taken so much away, you are sinking more of your life into it. It can just magnify the damage. I wish there were more justice in the world. I wish fighting the good fight were more rewarding. But that is often not a pragmatic approach.

duxup 9y ago

If it makes you feel better if I got a bunch of similar content sent to me from some mystery contact about a friend... I'd just assume they were a scammer and disregard it. I wonder how many people who get sent that stuff really change their opinions about their friends, family, etc? That's not to take anything from your experience, it sounds terrible.

segmondy 9y ago

File a civil suit. For those still reading, practice social media isolation. No one on my LinkedIn is on my Facebook. Only 1 person on my LinkedIn is on my twitter and only 2 people on my facebook are on my twitter. Facebook & Linkedin are not open to public.

dredmorbius 9y ago
This works if there are assets to be seized, or if you are independently wealthy enough to sustain a suit despite a lack of assets. Lawsuits are incredibly expensive. Figure $10k before going to trial, and $50k for a relatively simple case. Few or no lawyers will take such a case on contingency (plaintiff is not sufficiently flush). I'm not saying don't do this, but you're going to want to think through the process very carefully, and be very much aware of what the process might, or might not, produce. There are downside costs that might emerge as well, including the prospect of paying the plaintiff's legal fees, and undergoing discovery yourself. Talk to a lawyer, or several, if you like. Be aware that they also have their own incentives, and might be quite happy to run up billable hours, so long as you're good for them.

throwawaykite 9y ago

Really sorry to hear about your ordeal — I was once wrongly accused by a woman of something heinous and it took me a while to recover from the shock and PTSD. In particular this part of your post bothers me: “The experience haunts me to this day..” No - This shouldn’t be the case. You did nothing wrong. While there is no magic wand to “fix” how you feel - and esp low probability that an online post from a stranger would do anything but please consider the following strategies: 1. Try to understand shame. What is it and Why it is there? (evolutionary reasons) It might be liberating. 2. Know quite simply that the past doesn’t exist. Except In our heads. 3. Take inspiration: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37735368 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37735368 4. Try to research into revenge porn - what happened to you is very common; in some parts of the world with serious consequences for women - understanding that you are not alone (or special) might be oddly liberating. 5. Talk to someone. Maybe even a pro. Just some strategies that are available to you - hope you heal soon. (I am sure you are already trying to recover - Your message just stuck a cord and I wanted to offer advice)

WhitneyLand 9y ago
I think your situation is very much connected to the current wave of revelations of wrong doing against (mostly) women. Every time one of these celebrities denies a true accusation it causes a whole new wave of damage not only to the victim but, to every person who will ever have to fend off a wrongful accusation, because it muddies the waters and creates FUD. Yes, the data suggests the percentage of false accusations is small. However it burns me when people suggest bringing it up at all diminishes the bigger issue of assaults on women. In fact I think they enhance each other because they’re both about seeking clarity and justice. I’ve seriously heard people debate the death penalty by arguing, that the possibility of executing an innocent person is not one of the big issues because, that probably happens small percentage of the time. Scared the crap out of me to hear it articulated by a real person. Some media outlets have chosen to be critical of Louis CK’s response to the accusations against him. They think they are advocating for women, when actually they’re doing all of us a huge disservice. Focusing on the quality of apologies is a red herring. Only two things matter, the crime and the truth getting out about crime. Judge his apology/non apology anyway you like, at least he ended it decisively, instead of propagating it for enternity by sowing doubt.

WhitneyLand 9y ago

Do we take people too literally, when they say they care about human suffering and justice? Yes you were a victim, but not a noble victim in the eyes of most people, so that’s why hardly anyone cared. You hear people say everybody likes sex, but it’s not true. Actually everyone mostly hates sex. What they really mean is, out of one million possible sexual acts, there are 3, 6, or maybe a dozen they love, and 99.9% that they think are disgusting. The only difference between any of us is whether or not we insist that our 6 are better than everyone else’s.

tajen 9y ago

Hi. Apart from deeply empathizing with you, I have to say there are millions of men who suffer similar problems because there’s extremely little empathy for them. Ex: PyCon, James Damore and GitHub. If you want people to develop empathy for men (which are often at the bottom of the priority list, below women and dogs), MRM movements need more highly competent people and money. Check out what the CAFE organization does or the movie The Red Pill. I don’t exactly know what you should do immediately but realizing it’s a billion-people-problem is the first step.

emodendroket 9y ago
Seems like James Damore has almost nothing to do with this scenario, not least because in his case he voluntarily shared his manifesto publicly.
- cisanti 9y ago
  He was talking about emphaty, because media simply lied about him, without even reading his manifesto, and crucified him.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Is the party in this story lacking empathy the media? Or the guy who wrote a manifesto about how women just aren't fit for jobs as engineers, genetically?
- musage 9y ago
  To get subsequently smeared to hell and back. Oh, and he didn't even share it publically. He shared it with an internal group discussing these issues. It was then "leaked", and everybody piled on. And you now took part in exactly that, repeating the slander.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Yeah I'm sure the guy who was immediately itching to do an interview with all the luminaries of the alt-right was a shrinking wallflower who didn't want to draw any attention to his manifesto or himself.

Mz 9y ago

Men in my entourage just whispered and snickered. It isn't manly to be a victim. The people whispering and snickering are likely either horrible people who don't get victimized because they make sure they are taking advantage of other people and leaving no openings, or they have more terrible things to hide. Snickering is a form of denial of their own guilty behaviors.

darkmighty 9y ago

You should post this verbatim on social media.

HenryBemis 9y ago

I didn't understand if in reality if it was really your old-time-friend who actually did this, or someone who got control of her account and discovered "conversations gone cold" and tried to "revive the flame". It would be interesting to know who which of these was it.

snthd 9y ago

Brutal. Thanks for the reminder. Hope things get better.

DINKDINK 9y ago

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you and yet it's a great opportunity to highlight the benefits of self-deleting messages. Specifically it's elevates the cost of an attacker being able to comb through a vast ream of documents to weaponize your seemingly 'private' communications. Though self-deleting messages (such as on Signal) can't prevent the recipient from logging all communications as the come over the wire, it does prevent an attacker from weaponizing them retrospectively.

SJWDisagree111 9y ago

You admit you like kinky/deviant sexual stuff so why do you care what others think? Well the hard truth is you are trying to dishonestly maintain your sexual market value. You know they type of girl that high value men like and you don't want to limit your options. However you are not that person. (and SJW oblivion shall commence) Also who says "my entourage" when referring to their friends?

bfuller 9y ago
So would you care to share your intimate details of your sex life? How about some nude photos? And you won't mind if I share all of that with your linkedin contacts? Maybe your boss? Feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

lostboys67 9y ago

Could you not use the anti stalker laws ?