4 ms·
20 years ago I walked into a server room where the walls sported naked/semi-naked women and the inhabiting men looked at me like I was there to take away their
by telesilla 9y ago
20 years ago I walked into a server room where the walls sported naked/semi-naked women and the inhabiting men looked at me like I was there to take away their wall candy. I chose to leave and made another career for myself, because I was too young and afraid to stand my ground. I don't regret this, because I went on to have an amazing life, but I never again stepped foot in a room like that and I do regret never working with a massive Oracle installation or learning how to get the most out of a PERL app running on metal. I lost out, and I hate that I never had the opportunity to experience working at corporate scale.
I am willing to bet those rooms still exist, but almost all of the rest of my career I've found men welcoming and courteous, the same as the women I now work with. Things have changed and they are changing for the better - this is all just part of the discussion we gotta have.
It's getting better folks - the fact that women can now speak out in public means we are less scared, and we'll be able to interact more and you'll have a lot more women as company down the road.
Here's an exacting analysis by the ever-helpful Dan Savage on the Louis CK incident which covers similar ground (work-related harassment and power relations):
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/11/10/25557816/savage-love-letter-of-the-day http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/11/10/25557816/savage-l...
- fencepost 9y ago20 years ago walking out was the right choice - not necessarily because of the blatant sexism but because of the massive glaringly obvious and uncorrected mismanagement in that particular environment. The problem was not just that there were a bunch of jerks with pinups on the walls, it's that any competent management in the late 90s should have eliminated that within the first 5 minutes of walking into that room.
- ThomPete 9y agoso now you are a jerk if you have pinups on the wall?
- telesilla 9y agoIf by "pinups" you mean centrefolds from mens magazines, it's not appropriate in any work environment without the permission of all involved. When I was 20 years old I simply did not have the courage or understanding that I might have asked them to take the posters down or find something less confronting.
- ThomPete 9y agothats the problem right there though. does the newcommer dictate the culture or adapt to it. if a place is all men and a woman comes in do they need to change their act suddenly? i dont considder that a black and white question.
- dwaltrip 9y agoIf the company expects to hire any women in the coming years, then it is inappropriate to have pinups on the wall. Such things probably wouldn't help with investors or potential acquisitions either.
- fencepost 9y agoIf the office is all brogrammers and they hire a man who objects (for religious, moral, or simply having a little class reasons) does that person have to adapt?
- ThomPete 9y agothats the question and i dont think there are any right answers. i would personally never change anything in my company for anyones religious belief.
- telesilla 9y agoWe're talking about the presence of sexualised content. It's not OK in the workplace without consent (I'm not from the U.S. so I really don't care if there is nudity around as long as it's respectful and not contributing to systemic repression). If a new person comes into a workplace and has an issue, then yes - it needs to be discussed. Let's say there are male firemen calendars everywhere - you'd have, as a man, every right to challenge the presence of objectifying material. Feminism goes both ways.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- fencepost 9y agoWould you feel comfortable if you walked into an office and the walls were covered with semi-tumescent centerfolds from Playgirl (is that still a thing?) or the like? Heck, maybe the women in the office have a gay erotica reading group that gets together at lunchtime. How would you feel if it was pictures of gay male couples "in flagrante" and more than semi-tumescent? Might that make you uncomfortable?
- ThomPete 9y agonot at all. i dont care about such things.
- true_religion 9y agoWhat is with women in your example constantly reading about gay men? I've never seen heterosexual women so fascinated with gay men.
- bnjms 9y agoHey, your comment and link are really good. Those tweets were good too. Best commentary I've seen on this subject by a lot.