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Let me get this straight. Destiny has peer to peer server hosting at $60. Also it’s expansions are paid. Warframe (a similar game which people have compared i

Let me get this straight. Destiny has peer to peer server hosting at $60. Also it’s expansions are paid. Warframe (a similar game which people have compared it to) is free to play with no $60 up front charge and also has peer to peer server netcode. Nearly all of in game content is locked behind you grinding for resources and waiting for it to be built. Every expansion is also free. Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? And I’m forming over money for the expansions ?

angersock 9y ago
>Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? Do you think the game code and artwork is donated gratis by developers and artists? Fuck no.
- wppick 9y ago
  >Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? More like: so $ATVI can grow 550% in 5 years.
djrogers 9y ago
> Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? And I’m forming over money for the expansions ? Becuse none of the people that work on the game want to work for free.
- Viper007Bond 9y ago
  Plenty of paid games have dedicated servers. All of the Battlefield titles for example.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
Jach 9y ago
Warframe is just really good (except the latest expansion was rushed and had many bugs), it really has no business being F2P with how good it is.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- golergka 9y ago
  > it really has no business being F2P with how good it is Except for a few AAA dinosaurs surviving with cashflows and IPs from previous generations, F2P games typically have higher production values than paid ones.
QAPereo 9y ago
Games like Destiny, For Honor, that kind of game, are just pure money grabs. You get early beta quality releases with the full price game ending up being north of $160 even before whichever flavor of micro transactions are in that day. Currently, loot boxes are the way to fleece teenagers. The good news is that these games can be avoided, and should be avoided at all costs.
- GVIrish 9y ago
  That doesn't really make any sense. Destiny is a AAA console game franchise. Some people love it, some people like it, some people hated it. But with both Destiny 1 and 2, the problem was not that it was beta quality and riddled with bugs. It was deliberate design decisions that missed the mark for some players. But that's not different than the vast majority of games since the dawn of gaming. Yes, if you bought all of the DLC on launch day over 3 years, you would've spent well over $100. Even that is not outrageous considering that console games have remained at $60 since the early aughts even though AAA game development is a A LOT more costly now. If people don't like the base game, they don't buy the DLC. Pretty simple. Where things get into sketchy territory is when games start to intentionally gimp the core gameplay experience to goad players into microtransactions. Destiny 2 has started to dip into that cesspool with some of the changes they made from D1.
GVIrish 9y ago
> Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? Uhh, because paying several hundred people for the 2-3 years to make a AAA game costs money. Warframe is free-to-play and survives off microtransactions. Cool, that's one business model. Destiny is a shrinkwrapped pay-up-front game with microtransactions on the side. Another business model. The question of "why no dedicated servers" is a good one but it's separate from the actual business model.
- abiox 9y ago
  > Uhh, because paying several hundred people for the 2-3 years to make a AAA game costs money i took "why am i paying" to be a question about the value proposition. in that case the "business model" isn't terribly relevant. it's open question on why one would pay more for what seems to be less value (subjectively, of course).
  - kazagistar 9y ago
    You aren't paying them $60 for their netcode and servers, you are paying for the entire game. Games aren't interchangeable. The people paying for Destiny 2 are paying for it because it provides them a different experience then Warframe, and they want that specific experience. Its like, why should I pay for steak dinner when I can have pasta dinner? Because they are difference experiences, and thus their value to any given person will be different.
    - abiox 9y ago
      generally, asking "why am i paying for X if it doesn't..." is effectively saying "the value proposition seems poor to me". it's colloquial and generally rhetorical (or semi-rhetorical).
      - zitterbewegung 9y ago
        I will remember to use your phrasing next time. It seemed to cause confusion in half of the responses.
darklajid 9y ago
I sunk > 1000 hours into Warframe. It's an excellent game in my opinion and I'll return to it at some point (haven't played with the latest changes). For people that like crazy movement in a shooter: Give Warframe a try!
- euos 9y ago
  I’m Diablo3 and Destiny fan - this summer I was bored and decided to give Warframe a try (we started it with my son together coop). I was appalled how bad the game is. Ugly, with like 4 levels (they have a couple tilesets and randomly generated levels - so the levels all look the same). I quit it after we unlocked archwing - that part was way too buggy, on top of general bugginess of the game. Destiny2 gets a lot of hate, I don’t understand why. It is super-polished, level design is stellar (I love Nessus with the broken down Exodus One, mission on the Almighty was also really good).
  - darklajid 9y ago
    Regarding 'ugly': I guess that's just a matter of taste. It looks very good to me. There are quite a lot of tilesets. If you only played to the AW content, you probably haven't seen most of them. Also, the latest big patch of the game adds persistent hand-crafted areas to explore - basically 'open world' (but not quite as big as that makes it sound). I haven't played that part myself yet. AW went through lots of changes and while I personally always liked it it is quite a bit different for quite a while now (especially around input handling/degrees of freedom etc). You might not recognize it again. Destiny2 on the other hand looks nice, but is already boring to me after about 10 hours. It feels like WoW as a shooter, "Run there, collect things, come back". Now - I see the irony: Warframe's similar. But it's free and provides so much more in my opinion. 3 classes (with each 3 subclasses) against a LOT of warframes with completely different play styles. All weapons so far feel meh, Warframe gives me things like Glaives, Bows, Nun-chucks and whatnot on top of all the guns you'd ever want. Heck, you can breed 'dogs' and 'cats' in Warframe. Destiny2 so far is 'run there, shoot and get the same gun with slightly better stats' to me and I regret buying it. YMMV
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
bbarn 9y ago
https://wccftech.com/destiny-2-ahead-predecessor-activision/ https://wccftech.com/destiny-2-ahead-predecessor-activision/ Self confessed D1 junkie, currently one of the legion of "meh" induced D2 players that gave it up quickly. Put a bit of time into Warframe too. From a business point of view, Bungie/Activision is absolutely on another level though, with D2.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
> Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? Meanwhile, in FPS-land, a good bit of the player base will complain bitterly if they can't run community servers. You can't win, apparently!
- Alexa_ 9y ago
  The kind of community servers people want are usually self-hosted dedicated servers, not peer-to-peer.
golergka 9y ago
> Warframe (a similar game which people have compared it to) is free to play with no $60 up front charge and also has peer to peer server netcode. Nearly all of in game content is locked behind you grinding for resources and waiting for it to be built. Every expansion is also free. Warframe probably has an LTV much higher than 60$ over a paying active user. I'm working on multiplayer architecture for a paid steam game right now - and it's pretty evident, that unlike free2play titles that can count on revenue that is proportional to active players, we cannot afford dedicated servers, because our players will only pay once (may be several times in the future for DLCs, but I wouldn't count on it) and then continue playing as long as they please.
userpass 9y ago
I'd consider Warframe to be pay to win though. You can get everything for free but you can't keep it for free. Warframe is basically pokemon for guns but you have to pay money for inventory space. Imagine how popular pokemon would be if you had to pay money for every pokemon you caught beyond the initial 6 team slots...

angersock 9y ago

>Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? Do you think the game code and artwork is donated gratis by developers and artists? Fuck no.

wppick 9y ago
>Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? More like: so $ATVI can grow 550% in 5 years.

djrogers 9y ago

> Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? And I’m forming over money for the expansions ? Becuse none of the people that work on the game want to work for free.

Viper007Bond 9y ago
Plenty of paid games have dedicated servers. All of the Battlefield titles for example.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

Jach 9y ago

Warframe is just really good (except the latest expansion was rushed and had many bugs), it really has no business being F2P with how good it is.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
golergka 9y ago
> it really has no business being F2P with how good it is Except for a few AAA dinosaurs surviving with cashflows and IPs from previous generations, F2P games typically have higher production values than paid ones.

QAPereo 9y ago

Games like Destiny, For Honor, that kind of game, are just pure money grabs. You get early beta quality releases with the full price game ending up being north of $160 even before whichever flavor of micro transactions are in that day. Currently, loot boxes are the way to fleece teenagers. The good news is that these games can be avoided, and should be avoided at all costs.

GVIrish 9y ago
That doesn't really make any sense. Destiny is a AAA console game franchise. Some people love it, some people like it, some people hated it. But with both Destiny 1 and 2, the problem was not that it was beta quality and riddled with bugs. It was deliberate design decisions that missed the mark for some players. But that's not different than the vast majority of games since the dawn of gaming. Yes, if you bought all of the DLC on launch day over 3 years, you would've spent well over $100. Even that is not outrageous considering that console games have remained at $60 since the early aughts even though AAA game development is a A LOT more costly now. If people don't like the base game, they don't buy the DLC. Pretty simple. Where things get into sketchy territory is when games start to intentionally gimp the core gameplay experience to goad players into microtransactions. Destiny 2 has started to dip into that cesspool with some of the changes they made from D1.

GVIrish 9y ago

> Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? Uhh, because paying several hundred people for the 2-3 years to make a AAA game costs money. Warframe is free-to-play and survives off microtransactions. Cool, that's one business model. Destiny is a shrinkwrapped pay-up-front game with microtransactions on the side. Another business model. The question of "why no dedicated servers" is a good one but it's separate from the actual business model.

abiox 9y ago
> Uhh, because paying several hundred people for the 2-3 years to make a AAA game costs money i took "why am i paying" to be a question about the value proposition. in that case the "business model" isn't terribly relevant. it's open question on why one would pay more for what seems to be less value (subjectively, of course).
- kazagistar 9y ago
  You aren't paying them $60 for their netcode and servers, you are paying for the entire game. Games aren't interchangeable. The people paying for Destiny 2 are paying for it because it provides them a different experience then Warframe, and they want that specific experience. Its like, why should I pay for steak dinner when I can have pasta dinner? Because they are difference experiences, and thus their value to any given person will be different.
  - abiox 9y ago
    generally, asking "why am i paying for X if it doesn't..." is effectively saying "the value proposition seems poor to me". it's colloquial and generally rhetorical (or semi-rhetorical).
    - zitterbewegung 9y ago
      I will remember to use your phrasing next time. It seemed to cause confusion in half of the responses.

darklajid 9y ago

I sunk > 1000 hours into Warframe. It's an excellent game in my opinion and I'll return to it at some point (haven't played with the latest changes). For people that like crazy movement in a shooter: Give Warframe a try!

euos 9y ago
I’m Diablo3 and Destiny fan - this summer I was bored and decided to give Warframe a try (we started it with my son together coop). I was appalled how bad the game is. Ugly, with like 4 levels (they have a couple tilesets and randomly generated levels - so the levels all look the same). I quit it after we unlocked archwing - that part was way too buggy, on top of general bugginess of the game. Destiny2 gets a lot of hate, I don’t understand why. It is super-polished, level design is stellar (I love Nessus with the broken down Exodus One, mission on the Almighty was also really good).
- darklajid 9y ago
  Regarding 'ugly': I guess that's just a matter of taste. It looks very good to me. There are quite a lot of tilesets. If you only played to the AW content, you probably haven't seen most of them. Also, the latest big patch of the game adds persistent hand-crafted areas to explore - basically 'open world' (but not quite as big as that makes it sound). I haven't played that part myself yet. AW went through lots of changes and while I personally always liked it it is quite a bit different for quite a while now (especially around input handling/degrees of freedom etc). You might not recognize it again. Destiny2 on the other hand looks nice, but is already boring to me after about 10 hours. It feels like WoW as a shooter, "Run there, collect things, come back". Now - I see the irony: Warframe's similar. But it's free and provides so much more in my opinion. 3 classes (with each 3 subclasses) against a LOT of warframes with completely different play styles. All weapons so far feel meh, Warframe gives me things like Glaives, Bows, Nun-chucks and whatnot on top of all the guns you'd ever want. Heck, you can breed 'dogs' and 'cats' in Warframe. Destiny2 so far is 'run there, shoot and get the same gun with slightly better stats' to me and I regret buying it. YMMV
zitterbewegung 9y ago

bbarn 9y ago

https://wccftech.com/destiny-2-ahead-predecessor-activision/ https://wccftech.com/destiny-2-ahead-predecessor-activision/ Self confessed D1 junkie, currently one of the legion of "meh" induced D2 players that gave it up quickly. Put a bit of time into Warframe too. From a business point of view, Bungie/Activision is absolutely on another level though, with D2.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

> Why am I paying for a game if it doesn’t have dedicated servers? Meanwhile, in FPS-land, a good bit of the player base will complain bitterly if they can't run community servers. You can't win, apparently!

Alexa_ 9y ago
The kind of community servers people want are usually self-hosted dedicated servers, not peer-to-peer.

golergka 9y ago

> Warframe (a similar game which people have compared it to) is free to play with no $60 up front charge and also has peer to peer server netcode. Nearly all of in game content is locked behind you grinding for resources and waiting for it to be built. Every expansion is also free. Warframe probably has an LTV much higher than 60$ over a paying active user. I'm working on multiplayer architecture for a paid steam game right now - and it's pretty evident, that unlike free2play titles that can count on revenue that is proportional to active players, we cannot afford dedicated servers, because our players will only pay once (may be several times in the future for DLCs, but I wouldn't count on it) and then continue playing as long as they please.

userpass 9y ago

I'd consider Warframe to be pay to win though. You can get everything for free but you can't keep it for free. Warframe is basically pokemon for guns but you have to pay money for inventory space. Imagine how popular pokemon would be if you had to pay money for every pokemon you caught beyond the initial 6 team slots...