4 ms·

Nobody takes pride in a new jet save the manufacturers and the people who fly it. People do take pride in the security and strength a jet provides in times of

Nobody takes pride in a new jet save the manufacturers and the people who fly it. People do take pride in the security and strength a jet provides in times of crisis. You can't achieve any of the things you take pride in without the ability to defend yourself. In your case, you have America do it for you. What would happen if America didn't spend more than Switzerland's entire GDP on defense?

ivan_gammel 9y ago
How exactly American military spending in Iraq or Pacific makes Europe more safe? Wasn't it that trillion USD spent to replace Saddam with a puppet state that pave the way for ISIS, which now attacks European cities?
- rayiner 9y ago
  The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were a disaster. But without American military protection during the Cold War, there are a lot of Europeans that'd be speaking Russian now.
  - ivan_gammel 9y ago
    Questionable. USSR had much more conventional military power and strategic balance was defined by presence of nuclear weapons at both sides. But it's not that expensive and it's not only US who had them in NATO or in Europe. US saved Europe from Soviet invasion in 1940-1950s, but later it's not so clear, whether role of USA was decisive.
- colemannugent 9y ago
  I agree with your sentiment completely. In this case corrupt politicians created a crisis, and it is a shame that hangs over American international politics. As someone who believes in a smaller role for the American federal government, the idea that the American taxpayer actually paid money to destabilize a region and create an enemy that has routinely harassed us and our allies is sickening. But not that long ago in the Pacific Theater the US intervened to stop a very determined Imperial Japan. Without that intervention China and other Asian nations may not have been able to survive. Nowadays, Japan has no need for much of a military as the US is more than happy to help out one of our now good allies and trade partners. The idea of Japan being threatened by a possible North Korean attack provokes a protective response from most Americans I know. I'm sure our Japanese allies are very grateful that they can focus their government spending on other things that matter to them like the incredible standard of living they enjoy.
Feniks 9y ago
That would never happen because the military industrial complex IS America. And that's exactly what nobody in Europe wants. The military is a drain on the budget and every cent that goes to it is a tragic waste. Nobody in the US would ever describe the military as a "necessary evil".
- colemannugent 9y ago
  >Nobody in the US would ever describe the military as a "necessary evil" I would estimate that the number of Americans who would say this is about 40%. Of the people who disagree with that, 30% would take issue with the "necessary" part, and the final 30% would take issue with the "evil" part. >The military is a drain on the budget and every cent that goes to it is a tragic waste Just look at all the harm it did to the US during WWI & WWII.
- gozur88 9y ago
  I would, and I think most other Americans would too.
jopsen 9y ago
Perhaps the world would still be okay if the US spent a little bit less on defense. Once you can defend yourself, having 10x more jets won't do you any good. But yes, European NATO members should spend a bit more. In fact, this was resolved under Bush with non-binding spending targets for 2020 (2% of GDP). Credit where credit is due: many of the Eastern Europeans NATO members have already hit spending targets ahead of time. And if you google a bit, you see countless articles about European countries committing to increasing defense spending.
craigsmansion 9y ago
> What would happen if America didn't spend more than Switzerland's entire GDP on defense? Then they could afford universal healthcare and quality public education?
- colemannugent 9y ago
  <sarcasm> Right there with you! All we need is to be the strongest. After that, America first! Fuck our allies, we're the only ones who are worth protecting! </sarcasm>
  - drivingmenuts 9y ago
    Who, exactly, are our allies right now? As I sit here, I can count them on one hand: UK, France, Germany, Japan and ... ? I’m hard pressed to think of anyone else who would leap to our defense if push came to shove (and Japan might be willing, but not all that able).

ivan_gammel 9y ago

How exactly American military spending in Iraq or Pacific makes Europe more safe? Wasn't it that trillion USD spent to replace Saddam with a puppet state that pave the way for ISIS, which now attacks European cities?

rayiner 9y ago
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were a disaster. But without American military protection during the Cold War, there are a lot of Europeans that'd be speaking Russian now.
- ivan_gammel 9y ago
  Questionable. USSR had much more conventional military power and strategic balance was defined by presence of nuclear weapons at both sides. But it's not that expensive and it's not only US who had them in NATO or in Europe. US saved Europe from Soviet invasion in 1940-1950s, but later it's not so clear, whether role of USA was decisive.
colemannugent 9y ago
I agree with your sentiment completely. In this case corrupt politicians created a crisis, and it is a shame that hangs over American international politics. As someone who believes in a smaller role for the American federal government, the idea that the American taxpayer actually paid money to destabilize a region and create an enemy that has routinely harassed us and our allies is sickening. But not that long ago in the Pacific Theater the US intervened to stop a very determined Imperial Japan. Without that intervention China and other Asian nations may not have been able to survive. Nowadays, Japan has no need for much of a military as the US is more than happy to help out one of our now good allies and trade partners. The idea of Japan being threatened by a possible North Korean attack provokes a protective response from most Americans I know. I'm sure our Japanese allies are very grateful that they can focus their government spending on other things that matter to them like the incredible standard of living they enjoy.

Feniks 9y ago

That would never happen because the military industrial complex IS America. And that's exactly what nobody in Europe wants. The military is a drain on the budget and every cent that goes to it is a tragic waste. Nobody in the US would ever describe the military as a "necessary evil".

colemannugent 9y ago
>Nobody in the US would ever describe the military as a "necessary evil" I would estimate that the number of Americans who would say this is about 40%. Of the people who disagree with that, 30% would take issue with the "necessary" part, and the final 30% would take issue with the "evil" part. >The military is a drain on the budget and every cent that goes to it is a tragic waste Just look at all the harm it did to the US during WWI & WWII.
gozur88 9y ago
I would, and I think most other Americans would too.

jopsen 9y ago

Perhaps the world would still be okay if the US spent a little bit less on defense. Once you can defend yourself, having 10x more jets won't do you any good. But yes, European NATO members should spend a bit more. In fact, this was resolved under Bush with non-binding spending targets for 2020 (2% of GDP). Credit where credit is due: many of the Eastern Europeans NATO members have already hit spending targets ahead of time. And if you google a bit, you see countless articles about European countries committing to increasing defense spending.

craigsmansion 9y ago

> What would happen if America didn't spend more than Switzerland's entire GDP on defense? Then they could afford universal healthcare and quality public education?

colemannugent 9y ago
<sarcasm> Right there with you! All we need is to be the strongest. After that, America first! Fuck our allies, we're the only ones who are worth protecting! </sarcasm>
- drivingmenuts 9y ago
  Who, exactly, are our allies right now? As I sit here, I can count them on one hand: UK, France, Germany, Japan and ... ? I’m hard pressed to think of anyone else who would leap to our defense if push came to shove (and Japan might be willing, but not all that able).