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Fingerprint or face or retina is not a "password", it is a "login". And we should have a proper password in addition to the login, not as a substitute.

by Yizahi 9y ago

Fnoord 9y ago
One problem with passwords is that one has to use an input device like a keyboard or touchscreen to enter them (not needed with a password manager but how to enter that? via a password). Cameras and eyes can record this. Wouldn't surprise me if software can already accurately record keystrokes via a camera feed.
lightbyte 9y ago
I wonder if Apple experimented with using eye movements as a passcode? I imagine they have the technology available to do such a thing. That would make it so your face is your username and a specific movement you made with your eyes the password.
- newscracker 9y ago
  There are conditions that may make an average person unable to perform the movement, like getting a severe cold or an eye infection that makes an eye water. They may still want to use their phones with minimum inconvenience, instead of resorting to entering a passcode. It may not be possible for some people to configure it well either, and may probably result in eye movements that others may consider weird (imagine rolling your eyes in front of your boss because you wanted to unlock your phone).
nsxwolf 9y ago
Then what's the point of the added complexity? It's a single user device, so just have a password.
- Yizahi 9y ago
  Appliances like telephones will never have secure passwords (e.g. 32 random symbols), they will have at most short and insecure pins/passwords, 6-10 numbers or letters. But adding on top of that fingerprint/face with 1/10000-1000000 security will make it acceptably secure and still convenient.
valuearb 9y ago
No, we should not have a "proper password" in addition to a login. People use their phones without passscodes or set them to 0000 all the time. Edit: The worse problem is if biometrics fail in that scenario, you can't access your device ever again. In the real world, effective biometrics are the most secure login tokens we have.
- Yizahi 9y ago
  So what is the problem then - they will just have face/fingerprint protection (as they have now) plus useless 0000 pin. And all this optional in settings. No inconvenience at all. Other will have proper bio + password protection that can't abused in most cases.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    The problem is you are locked out forever if your biometrics fail. Requiring biometrics AND passcode means both have to succeed, Apple wisely chose to let you use biometrics OR passcode, so you can still get in when biometrics don't or can't work.
    - Yizahi 9y ago
      I do realize that some scenarios where bio fails exist. But I don't want simultaneous security all the time, I want an option to enable it and disable it when I want. E.g. I'm traveling through customs and I enable this mode - now the phone can't be opened by e.g. restraining me (or tricking me) and using only bio, they won't know the password to match. And if they will request to unlock my phone for inspection, well ok - but they can only look into it beside me, the minute it autolocks they won't be able to open it knowing only password that I provided because my bio is inseparable from me. Some other valid scenarios can also exist. PS: I read that some community firmware images allow this mode, the only thing that stops me from using them is lack of camera drivers for unofficial firmware.

Fingerprint or face or retina is not a "password", it is a "login". And we should have a proper password in addition to the login, not as a substitute.

by Yizahi 9y ago

Fingerprint or face or retina is not a "password", it is a "login". And we should have a proper password in addition to the login, not as a substitute.

Fnoord 9y ago

One problem with passwords is that one has to use an input device like a keyboard or touchscreen to enter them (not needed with a password manager but how to enter that? via a password). Cameras and eyes can record this. Wouldn't surprise me if software can already accurately record keystrokes via a camera feed.

lightbyte 9y ago

I wonder if Apple experimented with using eye movements as a passcode? I imagine they have the technology available to do such a thing. That would make it so your face is your username and a specific movement you made with your eyes the password.

newscracker 9y ago
There are conditions that may make an average person unable to perform the movement, like getting a severe cold or an eye infection that makes an eye water. They may still want to use their phones with minimum inconvenience, instead of resorting to entering a passcode. It may not be possible for some people to configure it well either, and may probably result in eye movements that others may consider weird (imagine rolling your eyes in front of your boss because you wanted to unlock your phone).

nsxwolf 9y ago

Then what's the point of the added complexity? It's a single user device, so just have a password.

Yizahi 9y ago
Appliances like telephones will never have secure passwords (e.g. 32 random symbols), they will have at most short and insecure pins/passwords, 6-10 numbers or letters. But adding on top of that fingerprint/face with 1/10000-1000000 security will make it acceptably secure and still convenient.

valuearb 9y ago

No, we should not have a "proper password" in addition to a login. People use their phones without passscodes or set them to 0000 all the time. Edit: The worse problem is if biometrics fail in that scenario, you can't access your device ever again. In the real world, effective biometrics are the most secure login tokens we have.

Yizahi 9y ago
So what is the problem then - they will just have face/fingerprint protection (as they have now) plus useless 0000 pin. And all this optional in settings. No inconvenience at all. Other will have proper bio + password protection that can't abused in most cases.
- valuearb 9y ago
  The problem is you are locked out forever if your biometrics fail. Requiring biometrics AND passcode means both have to succeed, Apple wisely chose to let you use biometrics OR passcode, so you can still get in when biometrics don't or can't work.
  - Yizahi 9y ago
    I do realize that some scenarios where bio fails exist. But I don't want simultaneous security all the time, I want an option to enable it and disable it when I want. E.g. I'm traveling through customs and I enable this mode - now the phone can't be opened by e.g. restraining me (or tricking me) and using only bio, they won't know the password to match. And if they will request to unlock my phone for inspection, well ok - but they can only look into it beside me, the minute it autolocks they won't be able to open it knowing only password that I provided because my bio is inseparable from me. Some other valid scenarios can also exist. PS: I read that some community firmware images allow this mode, the only thing that stops me from using them is lack of camera drivers for unofficial firmware.