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Interesting to read that, after what role german media/newspapers played in 2015. Especially since even journalists of well-respected german newspapers admitted

Interesting to read that, after what role german media/newspapers played in 2015. Especially since even journalists of well-respected german newspapers admitted the lack of critical journalism during this time.

Certhas 9y ago
What are you talking about? You speak as if some terrible catastrophe happened in 2015 that has led to untold human suffering in which the media was complicit by turning a blind eye. Instead what happened was that Germany took in a several hundred thousand refugees and migrants, which was a logistical challenge that was met. The cultural and integration challenge was initially under discussed but hardly relevant to the immediate humanitarian issue. Crucially though, that under discussion was quickly self corrected. The big center left media organisations have clearly talked about these issues. And not years after the fact but pretty quickly. The idea that somehow collectively the left, the German media or some other institutions have turned a blind eye towards the challenges implied is a complete myth. For example, in the biggest left weekly newspaper, Die Zeit, pretty much immediately after the cologne harassment events in January 2016, the headline article on sexist Arab culture. http://www.zeit.de/2016/03/sexismus-fluechtlinge-islamismus-araber-frauen http://www.zeit.de/2016/03/sexismus-fluechtlinge-islamismus-...
- readittwice 9y ago
  Your article is from 2016, while I was walking about 2015. This is pretty important since the events from sylvester 2015 were an important changing point. But please let's do not discuss single articles, it is more about the general sentiment the media wanted to convey. E.g. the infamous "Dunkeldeutschland". Since you mention the left Die Zeit: it's chief editor criticized the media for its news coverage during that time: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/bilanz-der-berichterstattung-zu-fluechtlingen-14416314.html http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/bilanz-der-beri.... There have also been studies about the role of the media in 2015: http://www.zeit.de/2017/30/fluechtlinge-medien-berichterstattung-studie http://www.zeit.de/2017/30/fluechtlinge-medien-berichterstat.... Photographers complained about the selection of their pictures in 2015: http://derstandard.at/2000066973507/Politikerfotos-Propagandabilder-als-Inszenierung-entlarven http://derstandard.at/2000066973507/Politikerfotos-Propagand.... It's fine to disagree with me, but calling my critique a "complete myth" is quite unfair.
  - Certhas 9y ago
    But it's crucial. It shows that if there was an initial overreaction along the lines you claim, it was corrected rather quickly from within the media landscape. I would say that it took a while for the media to figure out how to talk about the challenges without giving any credence to xenophobia. That shows a fundamentally healthy media landscape to me. After all you are able to cite two absolute mainstream papers, one conservative, one centre left to argue for your critique. And while that critique is valid, I still wonder what exactly you are talking about. It's not like something utterly terrible happened in 2015. The FAZ article explicitly also mentioned that there was a real worry about right wing violence and extremism in the wake of the refugees arrival. That's not media propaganda. Refugees have been overwhelmingly the victims, not the perpetrators of violence. If you remember, that is what Dunkeldeutschland in Gaucks speech explicitly referred to: Violence against refugees. If you look at 2015, and the media reaction, without the context of Solingen and NSU, you are missing the context of the debate. This could have been way worse. And my guess is that if Germany had a strong Fox News or Daily Mail it probably would have been.

Certhas 9y ago

What are you talking about? You speak as if some terrible catastrophe happened in 2015 that has led to untold human suffering in which the media was complicit by turning a blind eye. Instead what happened was that Germany took in a several hundred thousand refugees and migrants, which was a logistical challenge that was met. The cultural and integration challenge was initially under discussed but hardly relevant to the immediate humanitarian issue. Crucially though, that under discussion was quickly self corrected. The big center left media organisations have clearly talked about these issues. And not years after the fact but pretty quickly. The idea that somehow collectively the left, the German media or some other institutions have turned a blind eye towards the challenges implied is a complete myth. For example, in the biggest left weekly newspaper, Die Zeit, pretty much immediately after the cologne harassment events in January 2016, the headline article on sexist Arab culture. http://www.zeit.de/2016/03/sexismus-fluechtlinge-islamismus-araber-frauen http://www.zeit.de/2016/03/sexismus-fluechtlinge-islamismus-...

readittwice 9y ago
Your article is from 2016, while I was walking about 2015. This is pretty important since the events from sylvester 2015 were an important changing point. But please let's do not discuss single articles, it is more about the general sentiment the media wanted to convey. E.g. the infamous "Dunkeldeutschland". Since you mention the left Die Zeit: it's chief editor criticized the media for its news coverage during that time: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/bilanz-der-berichterstattung-zu-fluechtlingen-14416314.html http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/bilanz-der-beri.... There have also been studies about the role of the media in 2015: http://www.zeit.de/2017/30/fluechtlinge-medien-berichterstattung-studie http://www.zeit.de/2017/30/fluechtlinge-medien-berichterstat.... Photographers complained about the selection of their pictures in 2015: http://derstandard.at/2000066973507/Politikerfotos-Propagandabilder-als-Inszenierung-entlarven http://derstandard.at/2000066973507/Politikerfotos-Propagand.... It's fine to disagree with me, but calling my critique a "complete myth" is quite unfair.
- Certhas 9y ago
  But it's crucial. It shows that if there was an initial overreaction along the lines you claim, it was corrected rather quickly from within the media landscape. I would say that it took a while for the media to figure out how to talk about the challenges without giving any credence to xenophobia. That shows a fundamentally healthy media landscape to me. After all you are able to cite two absolute mainstream papers, one conservative, one centre left to argue for your critique. And while that critique is valid, I still wonder what exactly you are talking about. It's not like something utterly terrible happened in 2015. The FAZ article explicitly also mentioned that there was a real worry about right wing violence and extremism in the wake of the refugees arrival. That's not media propaganda. Refugees have been overwhelmingly the victims, not the perpetrators of violence. If you remember, that is what Dunkeldeutschland in Gaucks speech explicitly referred to: Violence against refugees. If you look at 2015, and the media reaction, without the context of Solingen and NSU, you are missing the context of the debate. This could have been way worse. And my guess is that if Germany had a strong Fox News or Daily Mail it probably would have been.