4 ms·

János Bolyai [1], Theodore von Kármán [2], Leo Szilard [3], Dennis Gabor [4], Edward Teller [5], Paul Erdős [6], John von Neumann [7]. [1] https://en.wikipedia

János Bolyai [1], Theodore von Kármán [2], Leo Szilard [3], Dennis Gabor [4], Edward Teller [5], Paul Erdős [6], John von Neumann [7]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1nos_Bolyai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1nos_Bolyai [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_Kármán https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_Kármán [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Szilard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Szilard [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Gabor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Gabor [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Teller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Teller [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

tehlike 9y ago
I am curious if it's because they are hungarian, or because they are jewish. Jews pay particular attention to science and arts, from what I gather from my jewish friends. Nobel laureates, for example, have disproportionate amount of jewish among them (compared to jewish population as a percentage of world population).
- underwoodley 9y ago
  You don't have to be curious for more than five minutes. Several of those mentioned are Jewish, but most of them are not. There are not disproportionately more Jewish Hungarian mathematicians, compared to the proportion of say, Jewish people in Budapest before WWII, or the proportion of Jewish people in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Looking only at the first half of the twentieth century, there at least as many world-ranking mathematicians from Hungary as from Poland, a country with a strong mathematical tradition, a much larger population, and a massively larger Jewish population (around a quarter of the Jewish people in the world in the 1930s). It's worth adding that comparing the proportion of Jewish Nobel prize winners to Jewish people in the world might not be a fair comparison. Much of this can probably be explained by the strong correlation between being European (including Russian/Soviet) or American, and being a Nobel prize winner.
  - ezequiel-garzon 9y ago
    You don’t have to be very curious to find out that about 22% of Nobel Prize winners have been Jewish [1], which leaves your controversial Western population at under 100 million even stretching the worldwide Jewish population to 20 million. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureat...
  - roi 9y ago
    Except for Bolyai, all mentioned above are indeed Jewish. Also all mentioned in your other comment (Fejér etc.) except Bollobás. Also Wigner, mentioned in another comment.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - underwoodley 9y ago
      I stand corrected. I wrongly believed that many of these including Fejer and von Neumann were not Jewish. I think the comparison with other populations such as Poland still seems to point out that something about Hungary in the 20th century was special, other than the presence of many Jewish people.
  - haihaibye 9y ago
    Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of 108-112 compared to a European average of ~100. This shifted mean means they have a much higher percentage of very smart people (~6 times per capita rate of >140iq which is the norm for Nobel prize winners) This over representation of high IQ is similar to the historical over representation in Nobel prizes for hard sciences.
    - SamReidHughes 9y ago
      You can't make conclusions about the number >140 based on a shift of the mean. IQ is scaled so that the general population has a normal distribution. That doesn't necessarily mean some subpopulation has a normal distribution. Even if that was the case, the subpopulation distribution would still have a different standard deviation. (It would partly depend on the level of assortative mating within that population.)
- dri_ft 9y ago
  You're in luck! Here's a looong in-depth consideration of exactly that: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science-fair-project/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-conside...
  - tehlike 9y ago
    Thanks. This is pretty interesting read.
- vilmosi 9y ago
  What an odd statement. Nobody said it's because they're Hungarian. It's because of the educational system at the time, which affected everyone in said system, regardless of ethnicity or "average IQ".
patkai 9y ago
I would add Eugene Wigner, also Nobel laureate.
underwoodley 9y ago
Also Fejér, Turán, Rényi, F. Riesz and M. Riesz, Bollobás
dgut 9y ago
With the exception of Bolyai, those are all Jewish. AFAIK Hungary did push above its weight for some time, but that was thanks to its Jewish population. Ironically Hungarians are extremely antisemitic, although nearly all known Hungarians were/are Jewish. Good riddance!
- Nesze 9y ago
  > Hungarians are extremely antisemitic One should not make irresponsible comments like this. Yes, I'm Hungarian but claims like these are just plain stupid.
- Wizek 9y ago
  > Hungarians are extremely antisemitic Some might be, doesn't mean all of them are. So [citation needed].
zoltaan 9y ago
Interesting list since they received quite heterogeneous and many times mixed education, home vs. institution, Hungarian vs. foreign, also their adult achievements were many times reached/mastered in other than the educating country. As long as the measure is the production of little children inside one of the historic borders of Hungary (or maybe elsewhere by at least one Hungarian-born parent) who later contributed to mathematics notably, this or that way, here and there, then Hungary is really good at math!

tehlike 9y ago

I am curious if it's because they are hungarian, or because they are jewish. Jews pay particular attention to science and arts, from what I gather from my jewish friends. Nobel laureates, for example, have disproportionate amount of jewish among them (compared to jewish population as a percentage of world population).

underwoodley 9y ago
You don't have to be curious for more than five minutes. Several of those mentioned are Jewish, but most of them are not. There are not disproportionately more Jewish Hungarian mathematicians, compared to the proportion of say, Jewish people in Budapest before WWII, or the proportion of Jewish people in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Looking only at the first half of the twentieth century, there at least as many world-ranking mathematicians from Hungary as from Poland, a country with a strong mathematical tradition, a much larger population, and a massively larger Jewish population (around a quarter of the Jewish people in the world in the 1930s). It's worth adding that comparing the proportion of Jewish Nobel prize winners to Jewish people in the world might not be a fair comparison. Much of this can probably be explained by the strong correlation between being European (including Russian/Soviet) or American, and being a Nobel prize winner.
- ezequiel-garzon 9y ago
  You don’t have to be very curious to find out that about 22% of Nobel Prize winners have been Jewish [1], which leaves your controversial Western population at under 100 million even stretching the worldwide Jewish population to 20 million. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureat...
- roi 9y ago
  Except for Bolyai, all mentioned above are indeed Jewish. Also all mentioned in your other comment (Fejér etc.) except Bollobás. Also Wigner, mentioned in another comment.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - underwoodley 9y ago
    I stand corrected. I wrongly believed that many of these including Fejer and von Neumann were not Jewish. I think the comparison with other populations such as Poland still seems to point out that something about Hungary in the 20th century was special, other than the presence of many Jewish people.
- haihaibye 9y ago
  Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of 108-112 compared to a European average of ~100. This shifted mean means they have a much higher percentage of very smart people (~6 times per capita rate of >140iq which is the norm for Nobel prize winners) This over representation of high IQ is similar to the historical over representation in Nobel prizes for hard sciences.
  - SamReidHughes 9y ago
    You can't make conclusions about the number >140 based on a shift of the mean. IQ is scaled so that the general population has a normal distribution. That doesn't necessarily mean some subpopulation has a normal distribution. Even if that was the case, the subpopulation distribution would still have a different standard deviation. (It would partly depend on the level of assortative mating within that population.)
dri_ft 9y ago
You're in luck! Here's a looong in-depth consideration of exactly that: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science-fair-project/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-conside...
- tehlike 9y ago
  Thanks. This is pretty interesting read.
vilmosi 9y ago
What an odd statement. Nobody said it's because they're Hungarian. It's because of the educational system at the time, which affected everyone in said system, regardless of ethnicity or "average IQ".

patkai 9y ago

I would add Eugene Wigner, also Nobel laureate.

underwoodley 9y ago

Also Fejér, Turán, Rényi, F. Riesz and M. Riesz, Bollobás

dgut 9y ago

With the exception of Bolyai, those are all Jewish. AFAIK Hungary did push above its weight for some time, but that was thanks to its Jewish population. Ironically Hungarians are extremely antisemitic, although nearly all known Hungarians were/are Jewish. Good riddance!

Nesze 9y ago
> Hungarians are extremely antisemitic One should not make irresponsible comments like this. Yes, I'm Hungarian but claims like these are just plain stupid.
Wizek 9y ago
> Hungarians are extremely antisemitic Some might be, doesn't mean all of them are. So [citation needed].

zoltaan 9y ago

Interesting list since they received quite heterogeneous and many times mixed education, home vs. institution, Hungarian vs. foreign, also their adult achievements were many times reached/mastered in other than the educating country. As long as the measure is the production of little children inside one of the historic borders of Hungary (or maybe elsewhere by at least one Hungarian-born parent) who later contributed to mathematics notably, this or that way, here and there, then Hungary is really good at math!