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I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? Is it the threat of t

I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? Heightened fears due to stronger monitoring of employees? Or genuine loyalty / indoctrination?

pulisse 9y ago
The disparity in pay (and prestige) between public and private sectors is larger in the US than in most of the rest of the world. The NSA's counterpart agencies in other countries can recruit stronger talent, retain them longer, and offer them more professional pride.
EthanHeilman 9y ago
>I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? 1. Leaks have happened in Russia, for example the KGB archives that Mitrokhin stole [0]. 2. Somewhere above 845,000 people have TOP SECRET clearances in the US intelligence community[1]. I can't find size of the Russia and Chinese intelligence community but I would guess it is an order of magnitude smaller. 3. Privacy is not viewed with the same level of importance in Russia or China. The US and European intelligence communities are tasked with a mission which directly contradicts the core culture values of those societies. Additionally the US and EU countries have large non-state controlled media outlets allowing someone to blow the whistle. 4. Because of the Pentagon papers all leakers/whistleblowers have an example of intelligence leaks being beneficial and good for the country. Are there any similar role models in Russia or China that might motivate a whistleblower? 5. When the US captures intelligence from Russia or China the US generally does not leak it to make Russia or China look bad. Russia, and before that the Soviet Union, have been using espionage to make the US look bad for have 60 years. [0]: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/kgb-documents-now-public-mitrokhin-archive/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/kgb-documents-now-public-mit... [1]: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/chinas-spy-network-united-states-includes-25000-intelligence-officers/ http://freebeacon.com/national-security/chinas-spy-network-u...
boomboomsubban 9y ago
If malware with ties to Russia was suddenly used in an attack, we would just blame the FSB. Something like an anonymous poster claiming to be responsible would be seen as obvious disinformation. And it isn't like these leaks are a frequent event here, the equation group is really the only one.
1001101 9y ago
From my perspective, on one side, they messed up on compartmentalization/access control. On the other side, the US is and should be held to a higher standard than China or Russia. Insiders are sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution, and when they see secret mass warrantless surveillance, and wars fought on dubious pretenses, one has to decide if you follow orders or do what you think is right by the Constitution. Additionally, from what I have seen, and I think this was pointed out by Ed Snowden, whistleblowers have been strongly disincentivized to use official internal channels. I don't know how Russia and China do it, but the US's open and free society has always been the source of its strength, and I hope it continues to be so.
forapurpose 9y ago
> I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? I think we just don't know what happens. I would be surprised if an article like this one would appear in the Chinese or Russian press. And if you were an American journalist, would you really want to touch the leaked FIS material? The First Amendment won't protect you.
belorn 9y ago
I believe part of it must be to basic economics. It is only worth leaking information if the individual believe that the benefit outweigh the costs (ie, chance of positive outcome vs risk of negative outcome). if the political environment is one where a leak would have minimal impact, then the leaker has less incentive to leak. Is it likely that a leak would impact the Russian election? Could a leak cause the Communist Party of China to be voted out of office? How likely is it that a leak would not simply be suppressed, but rather cause a change in the political direction? Leaks in the US has a history of causing real change. That could be the biggest reason why we don't see much leaks from other superpowers' intelligence organizations.
- gspetr 9y ago
  > Is it likely that a leak would impact the Russian election? I'm russian and Russia is more unstable than many believe. This alone[0] is likely the reason P. postponed his equivalent of the State of the Union speech, which was unheard of before. [0]http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/us-senate-attempts-incite-oligarch-rebellion-against-putin/ri20264 http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/us-senate-attempts-inc... There is also the fact that P. has still not announced that he will run, and in this case silence is deafening. It means that there is a very severe conflict behind the scenes - the ruling elites have not agreed whether he should run or someone else should run as his successor that will guarantee his personal safety and not let him get the Milosevic treatment in Hague for the events in Ukraine.
farseer 9y ago
>>Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? That is probably the primary reason. Along with perhaps bringing dishonor to your family (in Asian culture i.e. China's case)

pulisse 9y ago

The disparity in pay (and prestige) between public and private sectors is larger in the US than in most of the rest of the world. The NSA's counterpart agencies in other countries can recruit stronger talent, retain them longer, and offer them more professional pride.

EthanHeilman 9y ago

>I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? 1. Leaks have happened in Russia, for example the KGB archives that Mitrokhin stole [0]. 2. Somewhere above 845,000 people have TOP SECRET clearances in the US intelligence community[1]. I can't find size of the Russia and Chinese intelligence community but I would guess it is an order of magnitude smaller. 3. Privacy is not viewed with the same level of importance in Russia or China. The US and European intelligence communities are tasked with a mission which directly contradicts the core culture values of those societies. Additionally the US and EU countries have large non-state controlled media outlets allowing someone to blow the whistle. 4. Because of the Pentagon papers all leakers/whistleblowers have an example of intelligence leaks being beneficial and good for the country. Are there any similar role models in Russia or China that might motivate a whistleblower? 5. When the US captures intelligence from Russia or China the US generally does not leak it to make Russia or China look bad. Russia, and before that the Soviet Union, have been using espionage to make the US look bad for have 60 years. [0]: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/kgb-documents-now-public-mitrokhin-archive/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/kgb-documents-now-public-mit... [1]: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/chinas-spy-network-united-states-includes-25000-intelligence-officers/ http://freebeacon.com/national-security/chinas-spy-network-u...

boomboomsubban 9y ago

If malware with ties to Russia was suddenly used in an attack, we would just blame the FSB. Something like an anonymous poster claiming to be responsible would be seen as obvious disinformation. And it isn't like these leaks are a frequent event here, the equation group is really the only one.

1001101 9y ago

From my perspective, on one side, they messed up on compartmentalization/access control. On the other side, the US is and should be held to a higher standard than China or Russia. Insiders are sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution, and when they see secret mass warrantless surveillance, and wars fought on dubious pretenses, one has to decide if you follow orders or do what you think is right by the Constitution. Additionally, from what I have seen, and I think this was pointed out by Ed Snowden, whistleblowers have been strongly disincentivized to use official internal channels. I don't know how Russia and China do it, but the US's open and free society has always been the source of its strength, and I hope it continues to be so.

forapurpose 9y ago

> I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? I think we just don't know what happens. I would be surprised if an article like this one would appear in the Chinese or Russian press. And if you were an American journalist, would you really want to touch the leaked FIS material? The First Amendment won't protect you.

belorn 9y ago

I believe part of it must be to basic economics. It is only worth leaking information if the individual believe that the benefit outweigh the costs (ie, chance of positive outcome vs risk of negative outcome). if the political environment is one where a leak would have minimal impact, then the leaker has less incentive to leak. Is it likely that a leak would impact the Russian election? Could a leak cause the Communist Party of China to be voted out of office? How likely is it that a leak would not simply be suppressed, but rather cause a change in the political direction? Leaks in the US has a history of causing real change. That could be the biggest reason why we don't see much leaks from other superpowers' intelligence organizations.

gspetr 9y ago
> Is it likely that a leak would impact the Russian election? I'm russian and Russia is more unstable than many believe. This alone[0] is likely the reason P. postponed his equivalent of the State of the Union speech, which was unheard of before. [0]http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/us-senate-attempts-incite-oligarch-rebellion-against-putin/ri20264 http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/us-senate-attempts-inc... There is also the fact that P. has still not announced that he will run, and in this case silence is deafening. It means that there is a very severe conflict behind the scenes - the ruling elites have not agreed whether he should run or someone else should run as his successor that will guarantee his personal safety and not let him get the Milosevic treatment in Hague for the events in Ukraine.

farseer 9y ago

>>Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? That is probably the primary reason. Along with perhaps bringing dishonor to your family (in Asian culture i.e. China's case)