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I'm interested in this, I'd like you to write a bit about your impressions if you want.

jquery 9y ago
It would take more than an HN comment to describe. The key thing I observed is an intense lack of empathy throughout the society. It's simultaneously anarchic and totalitarian without the rule of law, and little societal trust. I don't see how they approach Western standards of living without the CCP loosening its grip, but the CCP is only tightening its grip, which belies a deep insecurity. I believe their government is only metastable, relying mostly on economic growth for its legitimacy. Once their growth inevitably plateaus, watch out.
- chillacy 9y ago
  > The key thing I observed is an intense lack of empathy throughout the society Can you elaborate? I just came back from Shanghai for a business trip, curious if we're seeing the same things.
  - jquery 9y ago
    Small example - lack of toilet paper in most restrooms (might not apply so much in the touristy parts of Shanghai). Instead of empathy towards others who might use the same restroom and need toilet paper, the toilet paper is quickly stolen because how foolish of the place to offer free toilet paper, they're basically asking for it to be stolen. Or seeing a Mom change a baby's poopy diaper on a restaurant table, because the sanitation will be someone else's problem. So much bad behavior that comes from empathy that seems to only extend to family and very little beyond that. How does this hurt the society? Well, now you have to take toilet paper with you wherever you go. It's a deadweight loss for the society, and China is riddled with these due to the empathy gap. EDIT: you are probably familiar with the homeless guy, down on his luck, who visits a restaurant, doesn't buy anything, takes a huge helping of free condiments and uses the bathroom. Now imagine a society where it's not just the homeless guys acting like this.
    - chillacy 9y ago
      I think there is a certain inconsiderateness, or like a "fuck you got mine" vibe reflected in things like crowding to get into a subway, or cutting people in line (I hate queueing in China). I'm not sure I chalk up the lack of TP towards that as much as there being no expectation of offering free TP so nobody does it. For instance there are also toilets in Japan where you have to buy the TP in a vending machine but people there are exceptionally considerate. In many places in Europe you usually have to pay to use restrooms in public places too. Just a different norm.
      - jquery 9y ago
        The TP probably isn't the best example, but I think you get the general idea. I went to Disneyland Shanghai and even Disney, legendary for their line management, couldn't get the queues under control in China. People would push into your back or walk right past you if you left any space.
        chillacy 9y ago
        Yea for sure, definitely my least favorite part of traveling there.

It would take more than an HN comment to describe. The key thing I observed is an intense lack of empathy throughout the society. It's simultaneously anarchic and totalitarian without the rule of law, and little societal trust. I don't see how they approach Western standards of living without the CCP loosening its grip, but the CCP is only tightening its grip, which belies a deep insecurity. I believe their government is only metastable, relying mostly on economic growth for its legitimacy. Once their growth inevitably plateaus, watch out.

chillacy 9y ago
> The key thing I observed is an intense lack of empathy throughout the society Can you elaborate? I just came back from Shanghai for a business trip, curious if we're seeing the same things.
- jquery 9y ago
  Small example - lack of toilet paper in most restrooms (might not apply so much in the touristy parts of Shanghai). Instead of empathy towards others who might use the same restroom and need toilet paper, the toilet paper is quickly stolen because how foolish of the place to offer free toilet paper, they're basically asking for it to be stolen. Or seeing a Mom change a baby's poopy diaper on a restaurant table, because the sanitation will be someone else's problem. So much bad behavior that comes from empathy that seems to only extend to family and very little beyond that. How does this hurt the society? Well, now you have to take toilet paper with you wherever you go. It's a deadweight loss for the society, and China is riddled with these due to the empathy gap. EDIT: you are probably familiar with the homeless guy, down on his luck, who visits a restaurant, doesn't buy anything, takes a huge helping of free condiments and uses the bathroom. Now imagine a society where it's not just the homeless guys acting like this.
  - chillacy 9y ago
    I think there is a certain inconsiderateness, or like a "fuck you got mine" vibe reflected in things like crowding to get into a subway, or cutting people in line (I hate queueing in China). I'm not sure I chalk up the lack of TP towards that as much as there being no expectation of offering free TP so nobody does it. For instance there are also toilets in Japan where you have to buy the TP in a vending machine but people there are exceptionally considerate. In many places in Europe you usually have to pay to use restrooms in public places too. Just a different norm.
    - jquery 9y ago
      The TP probably isn't the best example, but I think you get the general idea. I went to Disneyland Shanghai and even Disney, legendary for their line management, couldn't get the queues under control in China. People would push into your back or walk right past you if you left any space.
      - chillacy 9y ago
        Yea for sure, definitely my least favorite part of traveling there.