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The real way a senior engineer trains juniors is by selecting appropriate work. They thread the needle of a number of factors: it needs to be done, its within r

The real way a senior engineer trains juniors is by selecting appropriate work. They thread the needle of a number of factors: it needs to be done, its within reach, will build their skills, will educate them on product/business/process, they will find rewarding, will give ownership, relevant staff can support them etc. These factors are so important that the senior engineer might need to negotiate with the product manager to bring appropriate work forward to avoid failure or killing the enthusiasm of the junior. What can't really happen is for a junior to suggest work. The experience and context they lack is for the business, the user and the strategy. The junior's biases for what they think matters are usually much worse that the senior's for what works e.g. they want to improve cosmetic factors or add cool features. Its not that they are wrong, the product might be offensively ugly and the cool features might be game changers, but professional development is a parade of gut wrenching compromises because the constraint is time and resources not imagination and ambition. That said, I agree with the thrust of the article - the risk of senior engineers "fighting the last war" and accruing a set of limiting beliefs is very real and the naive optimism of a junior challenging them is part of the value they bring.

kelnos 9y ago
> What can't really happen is for a junior to suggest work. Junior engineers should feel welcome to suggest work. They should also be ok with having that suggestion rejected or put on the back burner because it's not pertinent to the current product/business goals. Depending on how the company is run, the senior can make the call, or involve a product owner, as to whether the junior's suggestion is something that they should be working on or not. But I think the OP's point about tone is important: being dismissive about it is demoralizing and isn't helping the junior grow. Explaining why (to borrow the example from the article) it might be ok to lose a week's worth of data, or even why they just currently have bigger fish to fry, but will revisit the idea later... that shows respect for the junior's desire to grow and establish ownership while giving them a taste of knowledge and experience that you have but they don't.
- duncanawoods 9y ago
  Yep, poorly expressed on my part. I meant it more that we can't really expect juniors to choose their own work and work off the own view of priorities. The discussion itself can be valuable but more often than not can't happen. The pathological case is the newbie who fights every request to complete high priority work in preference to their own ideas when they don't have enough understanding of the business to have such strong opinions. They slow everything down and the continuous resistance can make them toxic to work with.
  - PakG1 9y ago
    These are excellent opportunities to sit down with the junior engineer and explain how organizations are complex, incomprehensible decisions are often made from a birds eye view with a longer-term view (in good organizations), and that we all need to be patient and teachable to grow. I've seen too many older people who have never gone through this mentorship, and they still can't understand why nobody listens to them or promotes them. They just become very angry toxic people. Nip it in the bud when they're young to help them get the right attitude of wanting to learn and wanting to collaborate with others; that could be the difference between someone becoming a productive and successful person later in life and someone becoming a bitter and unsuccessful person. Yes, there are some young people who can't be helped. But I imagine most can be helped. I used to be young and arrogant too.
    - duncanawoods 9y ago
      I think quite a few successful founders fit in the "can't be helped" category so its not the end of the road. Those born to be the tip of a spear can be nearly unemployable as juniors.
    - sprafa 9y ago
      Feel like I struggle with exactly this - I had to get fired to get my attitude to change and I'm still working hard at it. Would definitely benefit from mentorship.
- nkjoep 9y ago
deleted 9y ago
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kelnos 9y ago

> What can't really happen is for a junior to suggest work. Junior engineers should feel welcome to suggest work. They should also be ok with having that suggestion rejected or put on the back burner because it's not pertinent to the current product/business goals. Depending on how the company is run, the senior can make the call, or involve a product owner, as to whether the junior's suggestion is something that they should be working on or not. But I think the OP's point about tone is important: being dismissive about it is demoralizing and isn't helping the junior grow. Explaining why (to borrow the example from the article) it might be ok to lose a week's worth of data, or even why they just currently have bigger fish to fry, but will revisit the idea later... that shows respect for the junior's desire to grow and establish ownership while giving them a taste of knowledge and experience that you have but they don't.

duncanawoods 9y ago
Yep, poorly expressed on my part. I meant it more that we can't really expect juniors to choose their own work and work off the own view of priorities. The discussion itself can be valuable but more often than not can't happen. The pathological case is the newbie who fights every request to complete high priority work in preference to their own ideas when they don't have enough understanding of the business to have such strong opinions. They slow everything down and the continuous resistance can make them toxic to work with.
- PakG1 9y ago
  These are excellent opportunities to sit down with the junior engineer and explain how organizations are complex, incomprehensible decisions are often made from a birds eye view with a longer-term view (in good organizations), and that we all need to be patient and teachable to grow. I've seen too many older people who have never gone through this mentorship, and they still can't understand why nobody listens to them or promotes them. They just become very angry toxic people. Nip it in the bud when they're young to help them get the right attitude of wanting to learn and wanting to collaborate with others; that could be the difference between someone becoming a productive and successful person later in life and someone becoming a bitter and unsuccessful person. Yes, there are some young people who can't be helped. But I imagine most can be helped. I used to be young and arrogant too.
  - duncanawoods 9y ago
    I think quite a few successful founders fit in the "can't be helped" category so its not the end of the road. Those born to be the tip of a spear can be nearly unemployable as juniors.
  - sprafa 9y ago
    Feel like I struggle with exactly this - I had to get fired to get my attitude to change and I'm still working hard at it. Would definitely benefit from mentorship.
nkjoep 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

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