5 ms·

I am unconvinced by this line of reasoning. From my perspective facebooks net effect is positive compared to before because it exposes people to different opin

I am unconvinced by this line of reasoning. From my perspective facebooks net effect is positive compared to before because it exposes people to different opinions way more than before where it was litterally only someones closest friends, neighbours, family and the news that you had as sources. Trump is an anamoly and his affect on the tribalism and polarization can't be taken for the norm yet I suspect that a lot of the reason there seems to be indication of increased tribalism is because of him not Facebook. There are plenty problems with facebook but from my perspective it's better than it's bad.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago
The point is that is exactly the opposite of what it does. It shows you more of the stuff you like and ends up creating filter bubbles. This aspect of FB is a big part of what people point to when looking at it's impact on the election and polarization of the US.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  This is exactly what I find unconvincing. If it creates a filter bubble how can it then increase tribalism and polarization?
  - mercer 9y ago
    I'm honestly confused by this comment. Being stuck in a filter bubble and increased tribalism/polarization seem like two things that rather obviously correlate. I don't really understand how that's not obvious.
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      Where does this tribalism and polarization take place if not online? Do you have any evidence of changed patterns in "real life" with that regard? So if Facebook keeps people in bubbles so they never get exposed to other views how do you know they are more polarized if not using social media.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    The echo is louder in your bubble Facebook creates for you.
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      Not sure what that even means.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Let’s say you’re my father in law. Let’s also say you get most of your news from your biker friends in their 50s and 60s. You might then be surprised to hear that the border wall has not been funded, that Trump does, in fact, not make us appear as the leader of the free world. That illegal immigrants are not the reason for soaring health insurance premiums. These are problems you face when you interface only with people who share very congruent values and obtain their news from the same source. If Facebook uses Skinner Box techniques to keep you on the site as long as possible, it’s not interested in outcomes that are good for you but might make you leave, like challenging your beliefs and values.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        Yes but that's not what's going on on Facebook. You aren't isolated like that. It's an oversimplification of how the algorithm actually works as there are plenty of non-political interestest involved too.
        toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Respectfully disagree from my anecdotal evidence. Someone sharing politics you don’t like? Unfollow or unfriend, leaving content in your feed that you want to see, reinforcing your beliefs regardless of the truth/facts.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        That is in contradiction to my anecdotal evidence and having done my share of research with regards to FB feeds in my line of work.
orangecat 9y ago
Trump is an anamoly That's the point; he's not. His approval rating is 38% which is historically low, but that still means that tens of millions of Americans like what he's doing. If you don't know any of them, that says more about you and your bubble than him. (That applies to me as well; of all the people I know I'd be surprised if more than 5% approved of Trump). I suspect that a lot of the reason there seems to be indication of increased tribalism is because of him I suspect it's largely the reverse. "Progressives" were rioting over Halloween costumes and the alt-right was making racist memes well before Trump came on the stage, and that's possibly because Facebook and other social media made it easier for them to organize.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  I am not sure I understand your argument. How is Trump not an anomaly? How many other politicians out there are like Trump? Voting for Trump does not make you like Trump. I am well aware of people who approve of him, I also wasn't surprised when he won I expected it exactly because I don't live in a bubble. I have plenty of good friends who voted Trump and Hillary and I understand why people would vote for either of them. I also understand why Trump still have a relatively large approval rating and disregarding his absurd and clumsy style I am not as negative towards his presidency.
  - mercer 9y ago
    I generally consider myself to be favorable to those outside any kind of 'establishment', but I'm honestly baffled how anyone could be even remotely positive about Trump. I'm also honestly curious though. Care to elaborate why you're not as negative towards him? And if not in public, I'd really love to continue this by email (mine's in my profile).
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      I can give you a simple example. I met a Trump voter from India who had spent more than 10 years and a lot of money to get his green card. He complained about the Dreamers and how that basically was cheating what he had to do the official way. These are the kind of subjects people care about when voting for someone like Trump. With regards to Trump and why I am not as negative towards him. Because I don't know (besides his toe-cringing communication style) what it is I should be negative about that isn't mostly republican politics. By and large, his politics haven't really done much in any fundamental way. I am aware that there are specifics that can be put forward as "bad" but to me politics is a much larger game than just isolated events. Fact is that we don't know what the consequence will be. The results of any presidents politics are often seen long after they left office. So I am basically unsentimental with regards to Trump. Personally, I am what you would call a fiscally conservative but value based liberal. I benefit from globalization because of what I do, but I am aware of the problems it creates for many in the working class (which I grew up in too) and I think Trump's appeal to them was at least an attempt at changing things in some fundamental ways. What I hold even higher though is the US democratic process which I consider extremely impressive in it's ability to contain someone like Trump. In other words like most other presidents before him, Trump is being guided by the checks and balances of the US democratic system. I don't see any cause for real concern so far.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago

The point is that is exactly the opposite of what it does. It shows you more of the stuff you like and ends up creating filter bubbles. This aspect of FB is a big part of what people point to when looking at it's impact on the election and polarization of the US.

ThomPete 9y ago
This is exactly what I find unconvincing. If it creates a filter bubble how can it then increase tribalism and polarization?
- mercer 9y ago
  I'm honestly confused by this comment. Being stuck in a filter bubble and increased tribalism/polarization seem like two things that rather obviously correlate. I don't really understand how that's not obvious.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    Where does this tribalism and polarization take place if not online? Do you have any evidence of changed patterns in "real life" with that regard? So if Facebook keeps people in bubbles so they never get exposed to other views how do you know they are more polarized if not using social media.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  The echo is louder in your bubble Facebook creates for you.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    Not sure what that even means.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Let’s say you’re my father in law. Let’s also say you get most of your news from your biker friends in their 50s and 60s. You might then be surprised to hear that the border wall has not been funded, that Trump does, in fact, not make us appear as the leader of the free world. That illegal immigrants are not the reason for soaring health insurance premiums. These are problems you face when you interface only with people who share very congruent values and obtain their news from the same source. If Facebook uses Skinner Box techniques to keep you on the site as long as possible, it’s not interested in outcomes that are good for you but might make you leave, like challenging your beliefs and values.
      - ThomPete 9y ago
        Yes but that's not what's going on on Facebook. You aren't isolated like that. It's an oversimplification of how the algorithm actually works as there are plenty of non-political interestest involved too.
        toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Respectfully disagree from my anecdotal evidence. Someone sharing politics you don’t like? Unfollow or unfriend, leaving content in your feed that you want to see, reinforcing your beliefs regardless of the truth/facts.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        That is in contradiction to my anecdotal evidence and having done my share of research with regards to FB feeds in my line of work.

orangecat 9y ago

Trump is an anamoly That's the point; he's not. His approval rating is 38% which is historically low, but that still means that tens of millions of Americans like what he's doing. If you don't know any of them, that says more about you and your bubble than him. (That applies to me as well; of all the people I know I'd be surprised if more than 5% approved of Trump). I suspect that a lot of the reason there seems to be indication of increased tribalism is because of him I suspect it's largely the reverse. "Progressives" were rioting over Halloween costumes and the alt-right was making racist memes well before Trump came on the stage, and that's possibly because Facebook and other social media made it easier for them to organize.

ThomPete 9y ago
I am not sure I understand your argument. How is Trump not an anomaly? How many other politicians out there are like Trump? Voting for Trump does not make you like Trump. I am well aware of people who approve of him, I also wasn't surprised when he won I expected it exactly because I don't live in a bubble. I have plenty of good friends who voted Trump and Hillary and I understand why people would vote for either of them. I also understand why Trump still have a relatively large approval rating and disregarding his absurd and clumsy style I am not as negative towards his presidency.
- mercer 9y ago
  I generally consider myself to be favorable to those outside any kind of 'establishment', but I'm honestly baffled how anyone could be even remotely positive about Trump. I'm also honestly curious though. Care to elaborate why you're not as negative towards him? And if not in public, I'd really love to continue this by email (mine's in my profile).
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    I can give you a simple example. I met a Trump voter from India who had spent more than 10 years and a lot of money to get his green card. He complained about the Dreamers and how that basically was cheating what he had to do the official way. These are the kind of subjects people care about when voting for someone like Trump. With regards to Trump and why I am not as negative towards him. Because I don't know (besides his toe-cringing communication style) what it is I should be negative about that isn't mostly republican politics. By and large, his politics haven't really done much in any fundamental way. I am aware that there are specifics that can be put forward as "bad" but to me politics is a much larger game than just isolated events. Fact is that we don't know what the consequence will be. The results of any presidents politics are often seen long after they left office. So I am basically unsentimental with regards to Trump. Personally, I am what you would call a fiscally conservative but value based liberal. I benefit from globalization because of what I do, but I am aware of the problems it creates for many in the working class (which I grew up in too) and I think Trump's appeal to them was at least an attempt at changing things in some fundamental ways. What I hold even higher though is the US democratic process which I consider extremely impressive in it's ability to contain someone like Trump. In other words like most other presidents before him, Trump is being guided by the checks and balances of the US democratic system. I don't see any cause for real concern so far.