4 ms·

Apparently I'm an "Upholder" and I fail to see why I would want a "Rebel" in my organization. "I'm not going to do this because I can tell that you expect me to

Apparently I'm an "Upholder" and I fail to see why I would want a "Rebel" in my organization. "I'm not going to do this because I can tell that you expect me to do it" How does that personality benefit any endeavor that requires cooperation between people? Maybe they can work for themselves more effectively, but it just seems destructive.

dddw 9y ago
Don't you watch movies? I guess that rebels are there to defy the status quo and make us think about conventions
CodeWriter23 9y ago
That’s not surprising given the Venn diagram illustrates your type has no intersection with the Rebel, amongst the given set of values. A seasoned manager will get the Rebel to believe something is their own idea, leveraging their rebellious nature to get that job done.
- phyller 9y ago
  Sounds like magic, I'd love to have that skill
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    You start by ending your practice of telling the Rebel what to do. Then you ask them "What do you think, Rebel?". And if it's reasonable, just say "Ok, then, when can I have that on my desk", and of course accommodate the Rebel's reality-to-actual-time factor. If it's not reasonable, then ask "What if we xxx'd instead?". You'll be surprised by the insights you receive that way. And of course you have to push back once in a while and call them out when their "insight" is actually "bullshit". edit: If one happens to be a micromanager, one will have an extraordinarially difficult time with the Rebel.
bayonetz 9y ago
I'm more of the Questioner/Rebel description so I'll take a stab at it. It takes a lot more to get me to understand the motivations of a decision and to get behind things, but once I do, I throw myself into it with an intensity and depth that is often unmatched by those doing so out of a sense of duty or obligation. Even better when I'm empowered to figure out and set my own valuable-to-the-company agenda. I work best on thorny problems where I'm given trust and encouragement to dissent. I bristle at the more straight forward (yet super valuable-to-the-company) tasks that just need to get done without much questioning. if you have more of the former, the Questioner/Rebel is uesful. If not, you're right, it would be best to show that type to the door for both your sakes.
- phyller 9y ago
  Thanks for the input, that makes sense. So the idea is set them loose in the direction of a worthy problem, with hands off management. Which is ideal for a manager in some ways. But if you're a rebel you had better have pretty good technical skills, or you'd end up digging a hole for yourself. Have you found that management gets frustrated by a lack of visibility in when and how things will get done? Or that when it comes time to involve other people in a project or turn it over to another team, that there is much friction? My concern would be a "cowboy" coding style that is familiar to you but inscrutable to others and unmaintainable.
  - bayonetz 9y ago
    Yes, mnanagement of that type of employee can be a definite issue. Depends on the type of the manger too. Top-down, command-and-control managers go nuts in this arrangement. Delegator managers do fine as long the employee ultimately comes through and perhaps gives updates occasionally. Yep, there is a fine line between off-the-rails cowboy and disciplined, independent contributor. It's why it's typically harder to be the Questioner/Rebel type early on in one's career (at least as an employee).

dddw 9y ago

Don't you watch movies? I guess that rebels are there to defy the status quo and make us think about conventions

CodeWriter23 9y ago

That’s not surprising given the Venn diagram illustrates your type has no intersection with the Rebel, amongst the given set of values. A seasoned manager will get the Rebel to believe something is their own idea, leveraging their rebellious nature to get that job done.

phyller 9y ago
Sounds like magic, I'd love to have that skill
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  You start by ending your practice of telling the Rebel what to do. Then you ask them "What do you think, Rebel?". And if it's reasonable, just say "Ok, then, when can I have that on my desk", and of course accommodate the Rebel's reality-to-actual-time factor. If it's not reasonable, then ask "What if we xxx'd instead?". You'll be surprised by the insights you receive that way. And of course you have to push back once in a while and call them out when their "insight" is actually "bullshit". edit: If one happens to be a micromanager, one will have an extraordinarially difficult time with the Rebel.

bayonetz 9y ago

I'm more of the Questioner/Rebel description so I'll take a stab at it. It takes a lot more to get me to understand the motivations of a decision and to get behind things, but once I do, I throw myself into it with an intensity and depth that is often unmatched by those doing so out of a sense of duty or obligation. Even better when I'm empowered to figure out and set my own valuable-to-the-company agenda. I work best on thorny problems where I'm given trust and encouragement to dissent. I bristle at the more straight forward (yet super valuable-to-the-company) tasks that just need to get done without much questioning. if you have more of the former, the Questioner/Rebel is uesful. If not, you're right, it would be best to show that type to the door for both your sakes.

phyller 9y ago
Thanks for the input, that makes sense. So the idea is set them loose in the direction of a worthy problem, with hands off management. Which is ideal for a manager in some ways. But if you're a rebel you had better have pretty good technical skills, or you'd end up digging a hole for yourself. Have you found that management gets frustrated by a lack of visibility in when and how things will get done? Or that when it comes time to involve other people in a project or turn it over to another team, that there is much friction? My concern would be a "cowboy" coding style that is familiar to you but inscrutable to others and unmaintainable.
- bayonetz 9y ago
  Yes, mnanagement of that type of employee can be a definite issue. Depends on the type of the manger too. Top-down, command-and-control managers go nuts in this arrangement. Delegator managers do fine as long the employee ultimately comes through and perhaps gives updates occasionally. Yep, there is a fine line between off-the-rails cowboy and disciplined, independent contributor. It's why it's typically harder to be the Questioner/Rebel type early on in one's career (at least as an employee).