5 ms·

Wow, a closed source language. Good luck with that.

by ttul 9y ago

giancarlostoro 9y ago
C# was close sourced for many years. It's who backs up the language, the tooling, the standard out of the box libraries, and documentation that makes a big difference in deciding the lifespan of a language. Then speed, stability etc (not in that order)
- js8 9y ago
  Yes, but it was also owned by MS, a big company. I think closed source language is a terrible business model, especially considering that this model managed to kill several well-known programming languages (Smalltalk, Common Lisp).
  - erikj 9y ago
    Smalltalk was never owned by a single company since the first public release in 1980. Common Lisp was born in cooperation between Symbolics, Texas Instruments, Xerox, CMU and was never owned by a single company either. Neither of them exclusively had closed-source implementations.
  - cies 9y ago
    (..., Miranda, ColdFusion, Opa, ...)
    - zem 9y ago
      was opa closed source? I don't remember it being, at least not at the time I first encountered it.
      - cies 9y ago
        It was closed for the first year, then went "open" but with AGPL therefor you cannot make non-opensource software with it if it has any users beyond yourself. It is a clear case of the license hampering the adoption of an otherwise good idea (JSX is so commonplace now, Opa had it already in 2010). But you are right, the actual close source era of Opa was very short.
- nathan_long 9y ago
  Are any languages currently closed source and still popular?
  - kognate 9y ago
    Depends on how you define 'popular'. Delphi still has quite a following. JCL isn't going anywhere either.
  - macintux 9y ago
    #8 on the tiobe index is VB .NET which is, I think, still closed source? #11 is Delphi/Object Pascal. MATLAB. Not much else.
    - cies 9y ago
      I'd like to add MS Excell, but I have a very broad definition of programming :)
    - algorithmsRcool 9y ago
      VB.NET has been open source for a few year now. https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/vblang https://github.com/dotnet/vblang
    - FRex 9y ago
      Whether or not 'Delphi/Object Pascal' includes the largely compatible Lazarus + LCL + Free Pascal combo is a very big question here. Just 'Delphi' would be clearer, FPC refers to itself as an 'Open source compiler for Pascal and Object Pascal' : https://www.freepascal.org/ https://www.freepascal.org/ Because of FPC, arguably, if you use Delphi you're not exactly stuck in the unlikely event that it dies since in the worst case there is Free Pascal to move to, LCL and Lazarus (although I have no idea how it compares to modern late 2010s era Delphi and RAD Studio but it's at least something). Delphi also has a more or less proven track record, costs a lot, is pretty much enterprise tier item and has a multi million company behind it. I'd argue Object Pascal is not a closed language but a language that has few implementations, one major open one (FPC) and one major closed one (Delphi) and that the situation is even better than C# vs. Mono was, since Mono had a murky legal/patent situation (or maybe it was FUD, I'm not too into C#) and the situation was basically 'closed language with a closed implementation that happens to have an open implementation' while FPC and Delphi are more like brothers with Delphi not 'owning' the concept of Object Pascal in itself nor any patents that could threaten it in any way AFAIK.
- abiox 9y ago
  sure, for a closed-source language that you have to pay for, you need to have a very high confidence in the source. for a closed-source closed-specification language, it seems quite a tall ask, imo. it would have to be something really amazing. i would wager that c# standardizing it's specifications (over ten years ago) and having an open-source implementation (mono) was a big deal, and moving toward rosalyn was certainly a strategic move.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  Not in 2017
  - giancarlostoro 9y ago
    I did say it was close sourced at one point.
- zokier 9y ago
  C# was closed source yes, but still practically gratis for most Windows devs.

Wow, a closed source language. Good luck with that.

by ttul 9y ago

Wow, a closed source language. Good luck with that.

C# was close sourced for many years. It's who backs up the language, the tooling, the standard out of the box libraries, and documentation that makes a big difference in deciding the lifespan of a language. Then speed, stability etc (not in that order)

js8 9y ago
Yes, but it was also owned by MS, a big company. I think closed source language is a terrible business model, especially considering that this model managed to kill several well-known programming languages (Smalltalk, Common Lisp).
- erikj 9y ago
  Smalltalk was never owned by a single company since the first public release in 1980. Common Lisp was born in cooperation between Symbolics, Texas Instruments, Xerox, CMU and was never owned by a single company either. Neither of them exclusively had closed-source implementations.
- cies 9y ago
  (..., Miranda, ColdFusion, Opa, ...)
  - zem 9y ago
    was opa closed source? I don't remember it being, at least not at the time I first encountered it.
    - cies 9y ago
      It was closed for the first year, then went "open" but with AGPL therefor you cannot make non-opensource software with it if it has any users beyond yourself. It is a clear case of the license hampering the adoption of an otherwise good idea (JSX is so commonplace now, Opa had it already in 2010). But you are right, the actual close source era of Opa was very short.
nathan_long 9y ago
Are any languages currently closed source and still popular?
- kognate 9y ago
  Depends on how you define 'popular'. Delphi still has quite a following. JCL isn't going anywhere either.
- macintux 9y ago
  #8 on the tiobe index is VB .NET which is, I think, still closed source? #11 is Delphi/Object Pascal. MATLAB. Not much else.
  - cies 9y ago
    I'd like to add MS Excell, but I have a very broad definition of programming :)
  - algorithmsRcool 9y ago
    VB.NET has been open source for a few year now. https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/vblang https://github.com/dotnet/vblang
  - FRex 9y ago
    Whether or not 'Delphi/Object Pascal' includes the largely compatible Lazarus + LCL + Free Pascal combo is a very big question here. Just 'Delphi' would be clearer, FPC refers to itself as an 'Open source compiler for Pascal and Object Pascal' : https://www.freepascal.org/ https://www.freepascal.org/ Because of FPC, arguably, if you use Delphi you're not exactly stuck in the unlikely event that it dies since in the worst case there is Free Pascal to move to, LCL and Lazarus (although I have no idea how it compares to modern late 2010s era Delphi and RAD Studio but it's at least something). Delphi also has a more or less proven track record, costs a lot, is pretty much enterprise tier item and has a multi million company behind it. I'd argue Object Pascal is not a closed language but a language that has few implementations, one major open one (FPC) and one major closed one (Delphi) and that the situation is even better than C# vs. Mono was, since Mono had a murky legal/patent situation (or maybe it was FUD, I'm not too into C#) and the situation was basically 'closed language with a closed implementation that happens to have an open implementation' while FPC and Delphi are more like brothers with Delphi not 'owning' the concept of Object Pascal in itself nor any patents that could threaten it in any way AFAIK.
abiox 9y ago
sure, for a closed-source language that you have to pay for, you need to have a very high confidence in the source. for a closed-source closed-specification language, it seems quite a tall ask, imo. it would have to be something really amazing. i would wager that c# standardizing it's specifications (over ten years ago) and having an open-source implementation (mono) was a big deal, and moving toward rosalyn was certainly a strategic move.
cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
Not in 2017
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  I did say it was close sourced at one point.
zokier 9y ago
C# was closed source yes, but still practically gratis for most Windows devs.