4 ms·

We should start demanding physical shutters for laptop webcams. Does anyone make those yet?

by Natsu 9y ago

hoopyfrood 9y ago
C-slide dot com, the iPad one (round with a pivot) is my favourite
confounded 9y ago
Even better is a hardware kill switch, especially for the mic.
- dmix 9y ago
  I managed to unplug the mic in my Thinkpad and my Dell XPS laptop with about 5min of work for each. It's still possible to do at the moment if you don't mind relying on plugging in headphones w/ a mic to use one. Of course a switch would be nice, similar to the older Thinkpads which had a hardware switch for the network devices on the front, originally for use on airplanes.
  - ethagnawl 9y ago
    > I managed to unplug the mic in my Thinkpad Any chance you documented the procedure or have links to relevant documentation?
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      This is easy in almost all laptops: the microphone is attached to the mobo via a 2-wire tiny plug. Disassemble your laptop, look at the other side of the keyboard pane, a bit away from the speakers. Some laptops might also carry mikes in the screen bezel or multiple mikes, so check all cables that go away from the mobo.
    - detaro 9y ago
      For Thinkpads the documentation you're looking for is the "Hardware Maintenance Manual" (HMM). E.g. here is one for the X260, it clearly describes where the camera/microphone assembly is, how to get to it and where its wire connections go: https://ok2.de/ThinkPad/HMM/x260_hmm_en_sp40j72016.pdf https://ok2.de/ThinkPad/HMM/x260_hmm_en_sp40j72016.pdf I haven't taken apart one of the more Ultrabook-style ones, so not sure how accessible those are, but the traditional ones are very serviceable. I wouldn't be surprised if the better Dell models have similar documentation available.
- jmnicolas 9y ago
  But now you have to trust the switch to really deactivate the mic. I'm a recursive paranoiac !
  - detaro 9y ago
    At least you only need to verify a switch once, it won't be compromised by software changes.
    - squarefoot 9y ago
      Assuming the switch does really cut the mic signal and doesn't instead act on a i/o pin which calls a function to disable the mic input. The second solution would be hackable.
  - cjbprime 9y ago
    The usual* way to handle this is to have a small LED next to the mic/camera that shows when it's on -- and have it wired up to the device in series, such that it's software-impossible for the device to be powered without the light being on. *: it's what we did on the One Laptop Per Child laptop, and I'm sure others have too.
    - tmzt 9y ago
      Thank you for inventing the netbook and showing the ODMs how to make low cost PC notebooks. Any idea where to get a CLI-from-boot notebook for teaching kids programming and encouraging a hacker ethic?
      - cjbprime 9y ago
        Thanks for the kind words! I haven't used it personally, but a programmer in my Twitter feed recommended this one that they've been using with their kids recently. (I don't think there's a heavy emphasis on CLI.) https://tksstgiftguide.tumblr.com/post/167274832422/our-kids-use-their-2016-kano-computer-kit-all-the https://tksstgiftguide.tumblr.com/post/167274832422/our-kids...
- Natsu 9y ago
  That's a very good point. We have it for wifi already, so...
- em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
  Librem Purism labtop has hadware kill switches.
jstanley 9y ago
I 3d-printed a crude shutter and super-glued it to the bezel: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oOkPP_5bjhs https://youtube.com/watch?v=oOkPP_5bjhs I think it would be about as easy to make a cardboard one.
rileyphone 9y ago
My Asus EEEPC has one.
stuaxo 9y ago
Indeed, bags of lens stick on lens covers (that allow you to open when you need the camera) is a product idea I thought of ages ago, but too lazy to actually do.
- blt 9y ago
  it exists already, got one as swag at a conference from Nvidia (???). strange gift, I like the sentiment though.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    Yes, got mine as a swag too (not Nvidia), works perfectly. Can be found by looking for "webcam cover slider" on Amazon or I assume any web store that deals with such things.
bobsoap 9y ago
There's been a Kickstarter called Nope for cams for a few years now, they exceeded funding by a large multiple each time. I got the second version a year ago, they are now on version 3 and added a headphone jack blocker. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bungajungle/nope-sound-blocker-and-webcam-cover https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bungajungle/nope-sound-...
- anoother 9y ago
  Not really sure about the headphone jack blocker; I'm not aware of an OS where the sound source can't be trivially switched in software, even when headphones are plugged in. The likelihood is that if an attacker has the ability to record audio, they also have the ability to bypass this device.
wrekone 9y ago
Indeed they do. The security team at my work ordered hundreds of them and hand them out to anyone that asks. They even have the company logo on them.

We should start demanding physical shutters for laptop webcams. Does anyone make those yet?

by Natsu 9y ago

We should start demanding physical shutters for laptop webcams. Does anyone make those yet?

hoopyfrood 9y ago

C-slide dot com, the iPad one (round with a pivot) is my favourite

confounded 9y ago

Even better is a hardware kill switch, especially for the mic.

dmix 9y ago
I managed to unplug the mic in my Thinkpad and my Dell XPS laptop with about 5min of work for each. It's still possible to do at the moment if you don't mind relying on plugging in headphones w/ a mic to use one. Of course a switch would be nice, similar to the older Thinkpads which had a hardware switch for the network devices on the front, originally for use on airplanes.
- ethagnawl 9y ago
  > I managed to unplug the mic in my Thinkpad Any chance you documented the procedure or have links to relevant documentation?
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    This is easy in almost all laptops: the microphone is attached to the mobo via a 2-wire tiny plug. Disassemble your laptop, look at the other side of the keyboard pane, a bit away from the speakers. Some laptops might also carry mikes in the screen bezel or multiple mikes, so check all cables that go away from the mobo.
  - detaro 9y ago
    For Thinkpads the documentation you're looking for is the "Hardware Maintenance Manual" (HMM). E.g. here is one for the X260, it clearly describes where the camera/microphone assembly is, how to get to it and where its wire connections go: https://ok2.de/ThinkPad/HMM/x260_hmm_en_sp40j72016.pdf https://ok2.de/ThinkPad/HMM/x260_hmm_en_sp40j72016.pdf I haven't taken apart one of the more Ultrabook-style ones, so not sure how accessible those are, but the traditional ones are very serviceable. I wouldn't be surprised if the better Dell models have similar documentation available.
jmnicolas 9y ago
But now you have to trust the switch to really deactivate the mic. I'm a recursive paranoiac !
- detaro 9y ago
  At least you only need to verify a switch once, it won't be compromised by software changes.
  - squarefoot 9y ago
    Assuming the switch does really cut the mic signal and doesn't instead act on a i/o pin which calls a function to disable the mic input. The second solution would be hackable.
- cjbprime 9y ago
  The usual* way to handle this is to have a small LED next to the mic/camera that shows when it's on -- and have it wired up to the device in series, such that it's software-impossible for the device to be powered without the light being on. *: it's what we did on the One Laptop Per Child laptop, and I'm sure others have too.
  - tmzt 9y ago
    Thank you for inventing the netbook and showing the ODMs how to make low cost PC notebooks. Any idea where to get a CLI-from-boot notebook for teaching kids programming and encouraging a hacker ethic?
    - cjbprime 9y ago
      Thanks for the kind words! I haven't used it personally, but a programmer in my Twitter feed recommended this one that they've been using with their kids recently. (I don't think there's a heavy emphasis on CLI.) https://tksstgiftguide.tumblr.com/post/167274832422/our-kids-use-their-2016-kano-computer-kit-all-the https://tksstgiftguide.tumblr.com/post/167274832422/our-kids...
Natsu 9y ago
That's a very good point. We have it for wifi already, so...
em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
Librem Purism labtop has hadware kill switches.

jstanley 9y ago

I 3d-printed a crude shutter and super-glued it to the bezel: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oOkPP_5bjhs https://youtube.com/watch?v=oOkPP_5bjhs I think it would be about as easy to make a cardboard one.

rileyphone 9y ago

My Asus EEEPC has one.

stuaxo 9y ago

Indeed, bags of lens stick on lens covers (that allow you to open when you need the camera) is a product idea I thought of ages ago, but too lazy to actually do.

blt 9y ago
it exists already, got one as swag at a conference from Nvidia (???). strange gift, I like the sentiment though.
- smsm42 9y ago
  Yes, got mine as a swag too (not Nvidia), works perfectly. Can be found by looking for "webcam cover slider" on Amazon or I assume any web store that deals with such things.

bobsoap 9y ago

There's been a Kickstarter called Nope for cams for a few years now, they exceeded funding by a large multiple each time. I got the second version a year ago, they are now on version 3 and added a headphone jack blocker. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bungajungle/nope-sound-blocker-and-webcam-cover https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bungajungle/nope-sound-...

anoother 9y ago
Not really sure about the headphone jack blocker; I'm not aware of an OS where the sound source can't be trivially switched in software, even when headphones are plugged in. The likelihood is that if an attacker has the ability to record audio, they also have the ability to bypass this device.

wrekone 9y ago

Indeed they do. The security team at my work ordered hundreds of them and hand them out to anyone that asks. They even have the company logo on them.