5 ms·

This supposed separation between the technical and the social/political is illusory, and shows a very blinkered and sheltered view of the world. In actuality t

by s_kilk 9y ago

This supposed separation between the technical and the social/political is illusory, and shows a very blinkered and sheltered view of the world. In actuality the technical and the social are deeply enmeshed, the society we live in shapes the tools we have, and the tools we have shape the society we live in. In this case we see a technology being developed and deployed to serve the interests of one group of people with little regard for how it affects the livelihoods of the other group. This is an ideological act, and (contrary to the whinging of so many technological determinists) an ideological deployment of technology. If you've detected a change in the tone around here it's possible that more and more techies are waking up to the fact that politics is more than just dinner-party conversation and affiliation signalling. For more on the topic I'd recommend picking up some Andrew Feenberg, his book "Transforming Technology" in particular.

mseebach 9y ago
I don't think the issue it with "political", but rather with "glib [...] and of little informational value". There's a comment in this thread saying "Welcome to late stage capitalism, folks" with a follow up asserting slavery. Both are dead, but presumably weren't when GP wrote their side point, and anecdotally that kind of commentary feels like it's in the ascendency.
- s_kilk 9y ago
  > I don't think the issue it with "political", but rather with "glib [...] and of little informational value". Full agreement on that one, but those labels are sometimes applied unfairly to any comment which doesn't toe the valley-culture-technological-determinism line too :)
dawnbreez 9y ago
I believe that politics is a cancer. It demands attention, refuses to relinquish control of conversations it becomes a part of, and only very rarely does it contribute anything beyond a lot of yelling back and forth. Once you have brought up Politics, you can rest assured that friends will become enemies, and the conversation will never turn back to the topic at hand. I understand the urge to bring politics in; the world around us seems to be falling apart because of political schemes. I simply do not care. If you really want to throw fits about capitalism and communism, or throw up a pithy quip about Trump et al., do so in a separate thread, possibly an Ask HN ("Who's your favorite liar?"). I'm going to go enjoy the fact that someone's working on mass-producing a powered exoskeleton.
- s_kilk 9y ago
  This is amongst the silliest things I have ever read. > I simply do not care. Right, so you live in the kind of comfort and privilege that allows you to detach from society and the political process. Acknowledge that the vast majority of people don't have the same privilege.
  - dawnbreez 9y ago
    Is it really that silly to want to do things for the sake of enjoyment or benefiting others, instead of doing things to spite a talking head on the TV who says mean things? It's a real problem that the political systems of the world are broken at best, but quite frankly I haven't got time or money enough to fix it, and my resources are better spent trying to build interesting things and watching others build interesting things. I cannot save the World; I can absolutely make my own life better, and help others around me.
    - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
      >Is it really that silly to want to do things for the sake of enjoyment or benefiting others, No, but for many of us, that road can be blocked because of politics.
      - dawnbreez 9y ago
        How is it blocked? Programming is not illegal. Neither is art. Unless your aspirations are politics, political decisions only rarely enter into the equation. That isn't to say it never comes into play, or that it never becomes a big enough problem to interrupt your actual goals. However, in my (~20 years) of experience in this world, what the President is saying has nothing to do with me. Indeed, the vast, vast majority of 'politics' (i.e., the things that catch your attention in news shows and blog posts) is pointless yelling, and has nothing to do with either of us, or any of the people who angrily demand action and strut back and forth in the comments. Recently, the same people who wage war in comment sections started warring in the streets, and it has only gotten worse. These are all reasons why I dislike politics, and why I advocate for separating politics from everything else. There is no point in trying to find a political statement in the games I'm trying to create. At best, you'd get to feel like a hero because you trashed someone's work over some supposed connection to Hitler. Similarly, I have no reason to go around waving guns and demanding that Hacker News ban all commies, or declaring anybody who doesn't use my exact combination of pronouns to be part of the new Reich. I would have nothing but a false sense of purpose to gain from these things, and I'd rather have the real sense of purpose from creating something people enjoy.
AJ007 9y ago
Except at some point, if you are an engineer, you need to do actual engineering. I see more interesting stuff in my Twitter feed now than shows up on HN. This story has 74 comments, none of them actually mention the company that makes the product the story is about ( Ekso Bionics ) Most, including this thread of comments, are completely off topic.
0xcde4c3db 9y ago
> the society we live in shapes the tools we have, and the tools we have shape the society we live in Incidentally, that's (my understanding of) what "the medium is the message" was about. Basically, changing the profile of which actions/habits/business models are feasible has a far more powerful effect on society and culture than do the specific decisions made within that profile.

by s_kilk 9y ago

mseebach 9y ago

I don't think the issue it with "political", but rather with "glib [...] and of little informational value". There's a comment in this thread saying "Welcome to late stage capitalism, folks" with a follow up asserting slavery. Both are dead, but presumably weren't when GP wrote their side point, and anecdotally that kind of commentary feels like it's in the ascendency.

s_kilk 9y ago
> I don't think the issue it with "political", but rather with "glib [...] and of little informational value". Full agreement on that one, but those labels are sometimes applied unfairly to any comment which doesn't toe the valley-culture-technological-determinism line too :)

dawnbreez 9y ago

I believe that politics is a cancer. It demands attention, refuses to relinquish control of conversations it becomes a part of, and only very rarely does it contribute anything beyond a lot of yelling back and forth. Once you have brought up Politics, you can rest assured that friends will become enemies, and the conversation will never turn back to the topic at hand. I understand the urge to bring politics in; the world around us seems to be falling apart because of political schemes. I simply do not care. If you really want to throw fits about capitalism and communism, or throw up a pithy quip about Trump et al., do so in a separate thread, possibly an Ask HN ("Who's your favorite liar?"). I'm going to go enjoy the fact that someone's working on mass-producing a powered exoskeleton.

s_kilk 9y ago
This is amongst the silliest things I have ever read. > I simply do not care. Right, so you live in the kind of comfort and privilege that allows you to detach from society and the political process. Acknowledge that the vast majority of people don't have the same privilege.
- dawnbreez 9y ago
  Is it really that silly to want to do things for the sake of enjoyment or benefiting others, instead of doing things to spite a talking head on the TV who says mean things? It's a real problem that the political systems of the world are broken at best, but quite frankly I haven't got time or money enough to fix it, and my resources are better spent trying to build interesting things and watching others build interesting things. I cannot save the World; I can absolutely make my own life better, and help others around me.
  - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
    >Is it really that silly to want to do things for the sake of enjoyment or benefiting others, No, but for many of us, that road can be blocked because of politics.
    - dawnbreez 9y ago
      How is it blocked? Programming is not illegal. Neither is art. Unless your aspirations are politics, political decisions only rarely enter into the equation. That isn't to say it never comes into play, or that it never becomes a big enough problem to interrupt your actual goals. However, in my (~20 years) of experience in this world, what the President is saying has nothing to do with me. Indeed, the vast, vast majority of 'politics' (i.e., the things that catch your attention in news shows and blog posts) is pointless yelling, and has nothing to do with either of us, or any of the people who angrily demand action and strut back and forth in the comments. Recently, the same people who wage war in comment sections started warring in the streets, and it has only gotten worse. These are all reasons why I dislike politics, and why I advocate for separating politics from everything else. There is no point in trying to find a political statement in the games I'm trying to create. At best, you'd get to feel like a hero because you trashed someone's work over some supposed connection to Hitler. Similarly, I have no reason to go around waving guns and demanding that Hacker News ban all commies, or declaring anybody who doesn't use my exact combination of pronouns to be part of the new Reich. I would have nothing but a false sense of purpose to gain from these things, and I'd rather have the real sense of purpose from creating something people enjoy.

AJ007 9y ago

Except at some point, if you are an engineer, you need to do actual engineering. I see more interesting stuff in my Twitter feed now than shows up on HN. This story has 74 comments, none of them actually mention the company that makes the product the story is about ( Ekso Bionics ) Most, including this thread of comments, are completely off topic.

0xcde4c3db 9y ago

> the society we live in shapes the tools we have, and the tools we have shape the society we live in Incidentally, that's (my understanding of) what "the medium is the message" was about. Basically, changing the profile of which actions/habits/business models are feasible has a far more powerful effect on society and culture than do the specific decisions made within that profile.