4 ms·

Japan does this as well, with some places even going so far as to offer stipends for children and free rent.

by sdrothrock 9y ago

csdreamer7 9y ago
Would these areas welcome Americans?
- sdrothrock 9y ago
  I haven't seen any citizenship restrictions, though usually there is a "you must live here at least X years or repay the benefits" restriction. Edit: If you mean culturally, I really can't imagine any problems as long as you're friendly, respectful, and speak the language. I've lived in some fairly remote places and never had an issue; a lot of people in my experience are pretty hands-off -- even if they don't like you, they don't bother you unless you bother them.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  I thought Japan doesn't really want immigrants. This is an opinion piece but it jives with other things I've read over the years http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/12/AR2010031201790.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03... Isn't this part of the reason they are trying to make robots that can take care of their aging population - they don't want to have immigrants come in and do it.
  - sdrothrock 9y ago
    I think it's difficult to say "Japan doesn't want immigrants" but perhaps more accurate to say that "Japanese society is not friendly to outsiders." The difference is that rather than being explicitly "we don't want immigrants," Japanese society is a fairly closed one that relies on a niche language. No language, no acceptance. Beyond that, for educated people to immigrate to another country, you need to have a job market that accommodates those people; Japan doesn't really have that. The wages and benefits aren't competitive and the pension system is unfriendly to immigrants. Additionally, you really need a good grasp of the language. You can also see another recent post of mine about the difficulty of making friends in Japan, which is another thing that makes it difficult for people to come here. It doesn't help that people who come here often have a mediocre grasp of the language, which makes things more difficult and encourages them to live in a "foreign bubble," which will often lead to depression when it pops. On the up side, the Japanese immigration process is INCREDIBLY simple, especially compared to the US one (which I've heard about second-hand from Japanese people). In order to work here, you basically need a university degree and a job that pays more than around $25k/yr -- with those, you're a shoo-in within a month or so.
  - mattm 9y ago
    Agree with all the points sdrothrock made. I lived in Japan for 5 years first via working holiday visa and then through a spousal visa after marrying my wife who is Japanese. After getting married, all I needed to do was take the marriage certificate to the immigration office and was pretty much instantly approved for a 3 year visa. I guess the train of thought is "Well, if one of our own approves of you, that's good enough for us." Getting PR in Japan is pretty much just a matter of having lived there for 5 years and not have broken any laws. Compare that to when my wife immigrated to Canada. Despite her speaking English, coming from an economically developed country, having a University degree and years of professional work experience we still needed to wait for over a year and it cost $2000 for everything involved. If you want to work and live in Japan, legally speaking, it's incredibly easy. The difficulty of integrating into society is the tough part. Even with a fluent grasp of the language, you'll always be an outsider. To say "Japan doesn't really want immigrants" is kind of accurate though. Japan relies on its closer culture to keep immigration low even though it may be more subconsciously and not a formal government policy.
    - sdrothrock 9y ago
      > After getting married, all I needed to do was take the marriage certificate to the immigration office and was pretty much instantly approved for a 3 year visa. Yeah, this is the part I always think of when I hear people here grousing about standing in line to submit visa paperwork or whatever. It's annoying to waste a day at immigration, but I know people in America where one partner is an American citizen and the other is an immigrant, but they've been watched and scrutinized and interviewed for years and years before the immigrant partner could get a green card. It's pretty ridiculous.
  - pcr0 9y ago
    The robots are because they don't want large-scale immigration of low-skill workers to take care of their aging population. On the other hand, they welcome professionals and high-skill workers.
- fiblye 9y ago
  Getting a job as an American here is easy. Just be proficient in the language and have solid skills in your field and it's not difficult to get a good programming job that pays about $2000 a month with 25-40 hours of expected overtime. And that's on the low side. The overtime, not the pay. I've seen job openings for ~$1600/month here and average expected overtime of 91 hours/month for one company. I've been contacted by companies offering similar. And pay raises are pretty much based on age. If that all sounds like an improvement over your status in America, it's easy to move over here. Pretty much all visas are approved. If that sounds bad, Japan is not a good place. For me, it was an improvement.
  - aesclepius 9y ago
    Wait, $2000/month with 25-40 guaranteed hours of overtime on the low end? That sounds absolutely terrible, or am I missing something?
    - reustle 9y ago
      That's the joke. Working conditions here (Japan) are generally terrible, and engineers (and pretty much everyone else) is sorely undervalued.
      - forinti 9y ago
        Does this generate any conflict at all, or do people just accept it?
        reustle 9y ago
        I don't have enough experience to speak on it (lived here over 1 year), but my foreign friends tend to try to stay out of JP companies, and smart japanese friends end up working (remotely or moving) w/ western tech companies.

Japan does this as well, with some places even going so far as to offer stipends for children and free rent.

csdreamer7 9y ago

Would these areas welcome Americans?

sdrothrock 9y ago
I haven't seen any citizenship restrictions, though usually there is a "you must live here at least X years or repay the benefits" restriction. Edit: If you mean culturally, I really can't imagine any problems as long as you're friendly, respectful, and speak the language. I've lived in some fairly remote places and never had an issue; a lot of people in my experience are pretty hands-off -- even if they don't like you, they don't bother you unless you bother them.
stevenwoo 9y ago
I thought Japan doesn't really want immigrants. This is an opinion piece but it jives with other things I've read over the years http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/12/AR2010031201790.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03... Isn't this part of the reason they are trying to make robots that can take care of their aging population - they don't want to have immigrants come in and do it.
- sdrothrock 9y ago
  I think it's difficult to say "Japan doesn't want immigrants" but perhaps more accurate to say that "Japanese society is not friendly to outsiders." The difference is that rather than being explicitly "we don't want immigrants," Japanese society is a fairly closed one that relies on a niche language. No language, no acceptance. Beyond that, for educated people to immigrate to another country, you need to have a job market that accommodates those people; Japan doesn't really have that. The wages and benefits aren't competitive and the pension system is unfriendly to immigrants. Additionally, you really need a good grasp of the language. You can also see another recent post of mine about the difficulty of making friends in Japan, which is another thing that makes it difficult for people to come here. It doesn't help that people who come here often have a mediocre grasp of the language, which makes things more difficult and encourages them to live in a "foreign bubble," which will often lead to depression when it pops. On the up side, the Japanese immigration process is INCREDIBLY simple, especially compared to the US one (which I've heard about second-hand from Japanese people). In order to work here, you basically need a university degree and a job that pays more than around $25k/yr -- with those, you're a shoo-in within a month or so.
- mattm 9y ago
  Agree with all the points sdrothrock made. I lived in Japan for 5 years first via working holiday visa and then through a spousal visa after marrying my wife who is Japanese. After getting married, all I needed to do was take the marriage certificate to the immigration office and was pretty much instantly approved for a 3 year visa. I guess the train of thought is "Well, if one of our own approves of you, that's good enough for us." Getting PR in Japan is pretty much just a matter of having lived there for 5 years and not have broken any laws. Compare that to when my wife immigrated to Canada. Despite her speaking English, coming from an economically developed country, having a University degree and years of professional work experience we still needed to wait for over a year and it cost $2000 for everything involved. If you want to work and live in Japan, legally speaking, it's incredibly easy. The difficulty of integrating into society is the tough part. Even with a fluent grasp of the language, you'll always be an outsider. To say "Japan doesn't really want immigrants" is kind of accurate though. Japan relies on its closer culture to keep immigration low even though it may be more subconsciously and not a formal government policy.
  - sdrothrock 9y ago
    > After getting married, all I needed to do was take the marriage certificate to the immigration office and was pretty much instantly approved for a 3 year visa. Yeah, this is the part I always think of when I hear people here grousing about standing in line to submit visa paperwork or whatever. It's annoying to waste a day at immigration, but I know people in America where one partner is an American citizen and the other is an immigrant, but they've been watched and scrutinized and interviewed for years and years before the immigrant partner could get a green card. It's pretty ridiculous.
- pcr0 9y ago
  The robots are because they don't want large-scale immigration of low-skill workers to take care of their aging population. On the other hand, they welcome professionals and high-skill workers.
fiblye 9y ago
Getting a job as an American here is easy. Just be proficient in the language and have solid skills in your field and it's not difficult to get a good programming job that pays about $2000 a month with 25-40 hours of expected overtime. And that's on the low side. The overtime, not the pay. I've seen job openings for ~$1600/month here and average expected overtime of 91 hours/month for one company. I've been contacted by companies offering similar. And pay raises are pretty much based on age. If that all sounds like an improvement over your status in America, it's easy to move over here. Pretty much all visas are approved. If that sounds bad, Japan is not a good place. For me, it was an improvement.
- aesclepius 9y ago
  Wait, $2000/month with 25-40 guaranteed hours of overtime on the low end? That sounds absolutely terrible, or am I missing something?
  - reustle 9y ago
    That's the joke. Working conditions here (Japan) are generally terrible, and engineers (and pretty much everyone else) is sorely undervalued.
    - forinti 9y ago
      Does this generate any conflict at all, or do people just accept it?
      - reustle 9y ago
        I don't have enough experience to speak on it (lived here over 1 year), but my foreign friends tend to try to stay out of JP companies, and smart japanese friends end up working (remotely or moving) w/ western tech companies.