3 ms·

Probably so. The kind of technology company where selling upper management on investing in security, maintainability, testing, open source, heck even version c

Probably so. The kind of technology company where selling upper management on investing in security, maintainability, testing, open source, heck even version control is going to be difficult, because the people at the top don't have the expertise to evaluate such proposals.

Avshalom 9y ago
So they're a tech company in the silicon valley model.
- rectang 9y ago
  The distinction remains: do you have advocates for technical best practices at the top? Not every SV-style tech company has such people, but lots of them do. Whereas companies which emerge from a different tradition don't have such people and don't even know what questions they should be asking.
Aloha 9y ago
I've worked in technical jobs for non-technical managers - you don't need to understand the technology to be able to manage people working on it. To wit - why would they care about most of that - or for example, version control - why would they even try to argue against version control - version control is a free problem at this point, as in it doesn't cost money to fix - and it wouldn't even rise up to a non-technical managers level.
- lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
  People don't like things they don't understand. It's funny you chose version control as your example; I work at a company currently trying to modernize and getting version control is like pulling teeth. Without technical leadership from upper management you each individual line of business standing up their own infrastructure (there's currently a war between github and gitlab for the new step forward; the resolution of which is blocking the purchase of any additional github licenses). Perhaps a domain expertise isn't strictly necessary but it helps a lot; especially in older environments trying to change.
  - CyberDildonics 9y ago
    > I work at a company currently trying to modernize and getting version control is like pulling teeth. If a company can't even understand the massive benefits with practically zero downsides of version control, they sounds like a company that is probably thoroughly screwed up.
- nunez 9y ago
  > version control is a free problem at this point, as in it doesn't cost money to fix - and it wouldn't even rise up to a non-technical managers level. You need to have just enough knowledge of version control to make that argument. And that’s the problem.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    you start out using git, then can migrate to a better product once money comes - and the money comes - the stated complaint wasn't "doing version control right" it was "using version control" which to me means, no version control or version controlled.
CamTin 9y ago
I'm pretty sure automobile manufacturing requires very rigorous technical standards. Hell, it's the industry where QA was practically invented, with most of the innovation occurring in Detroit and even at Ford. I trust an oldline automaker like Ford with safety-critical software engineering before I'd trust any "startup", especially one from the Valley. I'd bet consumers will feel the same. They'll feel safer climbing into a self-driving car with a Ford badge on it than one with a Snap badge, no matter how good Snap's marketing is, or if they ML software is open source.
- Aloha 9y ago
  Ford, Motorola, Western Electric and General Electric.
- csours 9y ago
  Fun fact: Eiji Toyoda got a lot of his quality ideas FROM Ford in 1950! Toyota (the company) then relentlessly pursued continuous improvement, to the point where Ford (and every other OEM) had to re-learn what quality meant. http://www.autonews.com/article/20130923/OEM02/309239967/eiji-toyodas-rouge-trip-changed-auto-history http://www.autonews.com/article/20130923/OEM02/309239967/eij... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiji_Toyoda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiji_Toyoda One should take early Toyota stories with a grain of salt, as there may be more than a little bit of hagiography.

Avshalom 9y ago

So they're a tech company in the silicon valley model.

rectang 9y ago
The distinction remains: do you have advocates for technical best practices at the top? Not every SV-style tech company has such people, but lots of them do. Whereas companies which emerge from a different tradition don't have such people and don't even know what questions they should be asking.

Aloha 9y ago

I've worked in technical jobs for non-technical managers - you don't need to understand the technology to be able to manage people working on it. To wit - why would they care about most of that - or for example, version control - why would they even try to argue against version control - version control is a free problem at this point, as in it doesn't cost money to fix - and it wouldn't even rise up to a non-technical managers level.

lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
People don't like things they don't understand. It's funny you chose version control as your example; I work at a company currently trying to modernize and getting version control is like pulling teeth. Without technical leadership from upper management you each individual line of business standing up their own infrastructure (there's currently a war between github and gitlab for the new step forward; the resolution of which is blocking the purchase of any additional github licenses). Perhaps a domain expertise isn't strictly necessary but it helps a lot; especially in older environments trying to change.
- CyberDildonics 9y ago
  > I work at a company currently trying to modernize and getting version control is like pulling teeth. If a company can't even understand the massive benefits with practically zero downsides of version control, they sounds like a company that is probably thoroughly screwed up.
nunez 9y ago
> version control is a free problem at this point, as in it doesn't cost money to fix - and it wouldn't even rise up to a non-technical managers level. You need to have just enough knowledge of version control to make that argument. And that’s the problem.
- Aloha 9y ago
  you start out using git, then can migrate to a better product once money comes - and the money comes - the stated complaint wasn't "doing version control right" it was "using version control" which to me means, no version control or version controlled.

CamTin 9y ago

I'm pretty sure automobile manufacturing requires very rigorous technical standards. Hell, it's the industry where QA was practically invented, with most of the innovation occurring in Detroit and even at Ford. I trust an oldline automaker like Ford with safety-critical software engineering before I'd trust any "startup", especially one from the Valley. I'd bet consumers will feel the same. They'll feel safer climbing into a self-driving car with a Ford badge on it than one with a Snap badge, no matter how good Snap's marketing is, or if they ML software is open source.

Aloha 9y ago
Ford, Motorola, Western Electric and General Electric.
csours 9y ago
Fun fact: Eiji Toyoda got a lot of his quality ideas FROM Ford in 1950! Toyota (the company) then relentlessly pursued continuous improvement, to the point where Ford (and every other OEM) had to re-learn what quality meant. http://www.autonews.com/article/20130923/OEM02/309239967/eiji-toyodas-rouge-trip-changed-auto-history http://www.autonews.com/article/20130923/OEM02/309239967/eij... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiji_Toyoda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiji_Toyoda One should take early Toyota stories with a grain of salt, as there may be more than a little bit of hagiography.