4 ms·

> Is interim storage of electricity too costly? For most intents and purposes, interim storage of electricity is science fiction. Batteries are woefully inadeq

> Is interim storage of electricity too costly? For most intents and purposes, interim storage of electricity is science fiction. Batteries are woefully inadequate, and the solutions that we do have, like pumped storage, have so long turn-on times that they might as well not exist for spikes that fast. This is the biggest narrative about energy production that is left unsaid in the general discourse. There are two distinct markets for energy -- the baseline production, and peaker production. They are different enough to be thought of as entirely different industries. Wind has the misfortune of not belonging in either.

artpop 16y ago
What about pumping water uphill, then using turbines to catch it coming down when it is desirable to do so.
- thingie 16y ago
  Of course. That's very common approach and there are many such power plants ("storage"). But as you can imagine, this cannot be built anywhere, cheaply enough and in large enough quantities. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Dlouhe_strane_horni_nadrz.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Dlouhe_st..., 2 × 325 MW for 6 hours when full, ~250 millions EUR to build)
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  Smith Mountain Lake around Roanoke, VA. 656MW of power generation/storage, built for $103 million in the early 1960s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Mountain_Dam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Mountain_Dam More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
MikeCapone 16y ago
A smart grid + demand response could help with storage: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/06/smart-grid-demand-response-renewable-energy-storage.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/06/smart-grid-demand-re... Basically, if you can control lots of water heaters, fridges, refrigerated wharehouses, A/Cs, etc.. You have a way to store power (f.ex. you make the water a couple degrees hotter, or the wharehouses a couple degrees lower). Not enough to affect what's in it, but enough to use that extra power and "store" it (which buys you time, and means that you can use less power later, ie. shut down a gas plant or whatever while all those things revert to normal temp).
owkaye 16y ago
>For most intents and purposes, interim storage of electricity is science fiction. Batteries are woefully inadequate, and the solutions that we do have, like pumped storage, have so long turn-on times that they might as well not exist for spikes that fast. Maybe the wind farms should install their own buffering systems. If they built reservoirs on hilltops then dumped their excess electricity into their own pumps they could avert this "all or nothing" issue by delivering power to the grid on a more consistent basis with fewer spikes.

artpop 16y ago

What about pumping water uphill, then using turbines to catch it coming down when it is desirable to do so.

thingie 16y ago
Of course. That's very common approach and there are many such power plants ("storage"). But as you can imagine, this cannot be built anywhere, cheaply enough and in large enough quantities. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Dlouhe_strane_horni_nadrz.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Dlouhe_st..., 2 × 325 MW for 6 hours when full, ~250 millions EUR to build)
chopsueyar 16y ago
Smith Mountain Lake around Roanoke, VA. 656MW of power generation/storage, built for $103 million in the early 1960s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Mountain_Dam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Mountain_Dam More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity

MikeCapone 16y ago

A smart grid + demand response could help with storage: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/06/smart-grid-demand-response-renewable-energy-storage.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/06/smart-grid-demand-re... Basically, if you can control lots of water heaters, fridges, refrigerated wharehouses, A/Cs, etc.. You have a way to store power (f.ex. you make the water a couple degrees hotter, or the wharehouses a couple degrees lower). Not enough to affect what's in it, but enough to use that extra power and "store" it (which buys you time, and means that you can use less power later, ie. shut down a gas plant or whatever while all those things revert to normal temp).

owkaye 16y ago

>For most intents and purposes, interim storage of electricity is science fiction. Batteries are woefully inadequate, and the solutions that we do have, like pumped storage, have so long turn-on times that they might as well not exist for spikes that fast. Maybe the wind farms should install their own buffering systems. If they built reservoirs on hilltops then dumped their excess electricity into their own pumps they could avert this "all or nothing" issue by delivering power to the grid on a more consistent basis with fewer spikes.