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Then why are such a high percentage of entrepreneurs immigrants from poor countries? Sure the rich kids have it easier. But it's not that difficult to live chea

Then why are such a high percentage of entrepreneurs immigrants from poor countries? Sure the rich kids have it easier. But it's not that difficult to live cheaply for awhile to pursue a business if you are motivated. It might just be cultural. Rich successful people encourage their children to be successful like they were. It could be genetic. Those immigrants I mentioned go through a fairly difficult and selective process to get into the country. They have higher IQs and conscientiousness than average. Factors which are both fairly heritable, and correlate very well with success in life. Meritocracy rewards the most able and driven. But no one said ability and motivation were distributed fairly.

sidlls 9y ago
What percentage of those entrepreneur immigrants are already well off?
- deleted 9y ago
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- HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
  A really, really high percentage. Being born from a poor country doesn't mean you are poor. Even the most impoverished place has an upper class that lives really well - they form the bulk of your immigrants to the first world.
tetraodonpuffer 9y ago
what percentage of people from poor countries manages to emigrate? any correlation between the traits needed to want to emigrate from your poor country and the traits needed for entrepreneurs? any correlation between being able to emigrate in the first place and general genetic advantage (you are not going to emigrate if you have a disability, are chronically ill, were not lucky enough to go to school and learn to read/write/fill the appropriate forms)?
llukas 9y ago
Maybe this comic would help you understand if it is that difficult: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate
- Houshalter 9y ago
  I don't deny that wealth gives you advantages. But I think the comic exaggerates it. If you live in a first world country you already are rich by world and historical standards. A minimum wage job will earn you multiple times the income of a person in a poor country. A century ago food used to make up something like 50% of people's income and now even the poorest are fat. There are a nontrivial amount of NEETs that get by doing no work at all. The comic makes a big deal about education. Yet there's a number of studies that show there is basically zero effect of education and education spending. In a single chart see this: https://www.cato.org/images/testimony/coulson-2-9-11-3.jpg https://www.cato.org/images/testimony/coulson-2-9-11-3.jpg and a nice in depth essay here http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/19/teachers-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/19/teachers-much-more-than...
  - pacala 9y ago
    It's not what you know, it's who you know. No matter how much money are spend on the median education, spending [much] more relative to the median buys the right pedigree and the right circle of friends.
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chrisco255 9y ago
I think you both make important points. Coming from a blue collar family and having started my own business only to go bankrupt, I can say there is a strong culture of avoiding risk in my family and those sort of lessons rub off on you regardless of your intelligence. It makes you less apt to take subsequent risks, or even take the risk in the first place.
alexasmyths 9y ago
"Then why are such a high percentage of entrepreneurs immigrants from poor countries?" Is this true? I mean, most immigrants to America are from places like Mexico and India and China ... so it makes sense we don't see a lot of 'French immigrant entrepreneurs'.
- taneq 9y ago
  I think they meant P(entrepreneur | immigrant from poor country) > P(entrepreneur | U.S. citizen), not P(entrepreneur | immigrant from poor country) > P(entrepreneur | immigrant from rich country)
ganeshkrishnan 9y ago
>Then why are such a high percentage of entrepreneurs immigrants from poor countries Not sure about other immigrants but for me it's probably because life itself has been so challenging that startup life doesn't seem that hard. I have been running my own startup with challenges of getting customers, employees, development done, customer outreach, interns and all that wham-bam with no investors and also trying to keep my family sane for more than an year. But one thing is for sure, I won't give up till the very end. My bipolar startup has been an year of yo-yos but hopefully tomorrow is a better day
amorphid 9y ago
One basic reason is that immigrants often find it easier to open a business than interview for jobs. It's hard to answer the question "tell me about yourself" in a culturally relevant way when you are still learning the basics of your new non-native language. Opening a business requires a nominal amount of money in fees and filling out a form. Living off of your savings while trying to impress people who don't seem to be hiring you gets unattractive pretty fast, so if you're gonna work hard, you may as well do it for yourself.
autokad 9y ago
immigrants have enormous advantages over 'rich kids'. for one, citizens are more likely to follow the law. you never noticed you dont pay sales tax in china town if you pay with cash? ever notice kids working the shops? do you think sales tax is the only tax they are ducking out on? many times i seen 10 year olds working the register unsupervised. i kind of respect that, but also how could you compete with that as a business owner? my one friend, her kid is super smart. but only top 1%, so to get into the good school she failed at the lottery. her nanny's kid appears impoverished because her husband works an all cash business and made it in based on income. our system is slanted against us in many ways, especially if we try to climb higher than lower middle class.
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penistives 9y ago
Because they have nothing to lose. When you have nothing to lose, you will take big risks.
Viliam1234 9y ago
> it's not that difficult to live cheaply for awhile to pursue a business if you are motivated. The immigrants from poor countries may have the relative advantage that living cheaply feels more acceptable to them, and is more socially acceptable in their community. Most people spend all the money they make. If the average salary in your community is e.g. $1000 a month, then to look "normal", you have to spend approximately $1000 a month. You can cut corners here and there, but if you do it too much, you will suffer social consequences. Either your friends will start seeing you as a "loser", or you will stop participating at some of their more expensive activities. In such situation, most people won't push too far. Maybe it wouldn't even be a good idea to burn your social capital, because if your business fails, you will need a Plan B. If you are an immigrant from a poor country, your social circle probably mostly consists of people coming from the same place. They won't judge you for not having expensive hobbies; it's "normal" not to have them. They are probably saving the extra money, and so are you. Maybe you only spend $500 a month on yourself, so if you have a brother, you can make a deal like "one of us goes to work for $1000 and pays for both, while the other tries to start a family business". Or parents work hard and live cheaply in order to provide their children a better future. The second generation is much less likely to live like this, because they already made friends in the majority culture, and start doing the expensive things to fit in. Social pressure is a thing. It is much easier to live the way people around you do. Sure, it's also about conscientiousness; I am not saying it's either-or, just that "conscientious and living in a subculture that encourages saving" is better than "conscientious and living in a subculture that encourages spending" for starting your own business.
- candiodari 9y ago
  > If you are an immigrant from a poor country, your social circle probably mostly consists of people coming from the same place. They won't judge you for not having expensive hobbies; it's "normal" not to have them. They are probably saving the extra money I think you'll find that this is very cultural. Middle easterners (who aren't of minority religion status) are poor (on average, just like everywhere else), but have the opposite attitude. You won't have money, and there are large social consequences to not spending. So they drive a 20 year old mercedes, for example. It is a cultural thing. Some places are large enough to have multiple cultures, and both people who save everything they have and people who overspend are a popular thing. Popular in the sense that there's millions of people living like that. India and China are such places. Even starting a business by itself has cultural stigma associated with it. Starting a business, for instance, may immediately cause people to judge you (because you're "obviously" dodging taxes and therefore "stealing from them", and destined for bankruptcy or prison, is the best explanation I've heard). I've seen this attitude in Western Europe. Better to be an employee. Even better to be a "respectable" money maker like a doctor or lawyer. Starting a company will have social consequences just by itself. And of course to some extent, you'll find both attitudes everywhere.
nikdaheratik 9y ago
It's not just about Cost of Living. When you're an immigrant you know very little outside of your own family/community. The options are either be your own boss or be underemployed forever because you can't get hired to match your skill level. And if you look at the founders of companies that eventually go public (or at least have the revenue that they could do so), they are pretty much all started by people who had connections and access to their own capital early on. I'm not saying the American dream is dead, but it's never been as great as people make out and it's only getting worse.

sidlls 9y ago

What percentage of those entrepreneur immigrants are already well off?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
A really, really high percentage. Being born from a poor country doesn't mean you are poor. Even the most impoverished place has an upper class that lives really well - they form the bulk of your immigrants to the first world.

tetraodonpuffer 9y ago

what percentage of people from poor countries manages to emigrate? any correlation between the traits needed to want to emigrate from your poor country and the traits needed for entrepreneurs? any correlation between being able to emigrate in the first place and general genetic advantage (you are not going to emigrate if you have a disability, are chronically ill, were not lucky enough to go to school and learn to read/write/fill the appropriate forms)?

llukas 9y ago

Maybe this comic would help you understand if it is that difficult: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

Houshalter 9y ago
I don't deny that wealth gives you advantages. But I think the comic exaggerates it. If you live in a first world country you already are rich by world and historical standards. A minimum wage job will earn you multiple times the income of a person in a poor country. A century ago food used to make up something like 50% of people's income and now even the poorest are fat. There are a nontrivial amount of NEETs that get by doing no work at all. The comic makes a big deal about education. Yet there's a number of studies that show there is basically zero effect of education and education spending. In a single chart see this: https://www.cato.org/images/testimony/coulson-2-9-11-3.jpg https://www.cato.org/images/testimony/coulson-2-9-11-3.jpg and a nice in depth essay here http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/19/teachers-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/19/teachers-much-more-than...
- pacala 9y ago
  It's not what you know, it's who you know. No matter how much money are spend on the median education, spending [much] more relative to the median buys the right pedigree and the right circle of friends.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

chrisco255 9y ago

I think you both make important points. Coming from a blue collar family and having started my own business only to go bankrupt, I can say there is a strong culture of avoiding risk in my family and those sort of lessons rub off on you regardless of your intelligence. It makes you less apt to take subsequent risks, or even take the risk in the first place.

alexasmyths 9y ago

"Then why are such a high percentage of entrepreneurs immigrants from poor countries?" Is this true? I mean, most immigrants to America are from places like Mexico and India and China ... so it makes sense we don't see a lot of 'French immigrant entrepreneurs'.

taneq 9y ago
I think they meant P(entrepreneur | immigrant from poor country) > P(entrepreneur | U.S. citizen), not P(entrepreneur | immigrant from poor country) > P(entrepreneur | immigrant from rich country)

ganeshkrishnan 9y ago

>Then why are such a high percentage of entrepreneurs immigrants from poor countries Not sure about other immigrants but for me it's probably because life itself has been so challenging that startup life doesn't seem that hard. I have been running my own startup with challenges of getting customers, employees, development done, customer outreach, interns and all that wham-bam with no investors and also trying to keep my family sane for more than an year. But one thing is for sure, I won't give up till the very end. My bipolar startup has been an year of yo-yos but hopefully tomorrow is a better day

amorphid 9y ago

One basic reason is that immigrants often find it easier to open a business than interview for jobs. It's hard to answer the question "tell me about yourself" in a culturally relevant way when you are still learning the basics of your new non-native language. Opening a business requires a nominal amount of money in fees and filling out a form. Living off of your savings while trying to impress people who don't seem to be hiring you gets unattractive pretty fast, so if you're gonna work hard, you may as well do it for yourself.

autokad 9y ago

immigrants have enormous advantages over 'rich kids'. for one, citizens are more likely to follow the law. you never noticed you dont pay sales tax in china town if you pay with cash? ever notice kids working the shops? do you think sales tax is the only tax they are ducking out on? many times i seen 10 year olds working the register unsupervised. i kind of respect that, but also how could you compete with that as a business owner? my one friend, her kid is super smart. but only top 1%, so to get into the good school she failed at the lottery. her nanny's kid appears impoverished because her husband works an all cash business and made it in based on income. our system is slanted against us in many ways, especially if we try to climb higher than lower middle class.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

penistives 9y ago

Because they have nothing to lose. When you have nothing to lose, you will take big risks.

Viliam1234 9y ago

> it's not that difficult to live cheaply for awhile to pursue a business if you are motivated. The immigrants from poor countries may have the relative advantage that living cheaply feels more acceptable to them, and is more socially acceptable in their community. Most people spend all the money they make. If the average salary in your community is e.g. $1000 a month, then to look "normal", you have to spend approximately $1000 a month. You can cut corners here and there, but if you do it too much, you will suffer social consequences. Either your friends will start seeing you as a "loser", or you will stop participating at some of their more expensive activities. In such situation, most people won't push too far. Maybe it wouldn't even be a good idea to burn your social capital, because if your business fails, you will need a Plan B. If you are an immigrant from a poor country, your social circle probably mostly consists of people coming from the same place. They won't judge you for not having expensive hobbies; it's "normal" not to have them. They are probably saving the extra money, and so are you. Maybe you only spend $500 a month on yourself, so if you have a brother, you can make a deal like "one of us goes to work for $1000 and pays for both, while the other tries to start a family business". Or parents work hard and live cheaply in order to provide their children a better future. The second generation is much less likely to live like this, because they already made friends in the majority culture, and start doing the expensive things to fit in. Social pressure is a thing. It is much easier to live the way people around you do. Sure, it's also about conscientiousness; I am not saying it's either-or, just that "conscientious and living in a subculture that encourages saving" is better than "conscientious and living in a subculture that encourages spending" for starting your own business.

candiodari 9y ago
> If you are an immigrant from a poor country, your social circle probably mostly consists of people coming from the same place. They won't judge you for not having expensive hobbies; it's "normal" not to have them. They are probably saving the extra money I think you'll find that this is very cultural. Middle easterners (who aren't of minority religion status) are poor (on average, just like everywhere else), but have the opposite attitude. You won't have money, and there are large social consequences to not spending. So they drive a 20 year old mercedes, for example. It is a cultural thing. Some places are large enough to have multiple cultures, and both people who save everything they have and people who overspend are a popular thing. Popular in the sense that there's millions of people living like that. India and China are such places. Even starting a business by itself has cultural stigma associated with it. Starting a business, for instance, may immediately cause people to judge you (because you're "obviously" dodging taxes and therefore "stealing from them", and destined for bankruptcy or prison, is the best explanation I've heard). I've seen this attitude in Western Europe. Better to be an employee. Even better to be a "respectable" money maker like a doctor or lawyer. Starting a company will have social consequences just by itself. And of course to some extent, you'll find both attitudes everywhere.

nikdaheratik 9y ago

It's not just about Cost of Living. When you're an immigrant you know very little outside of your own family/community. The options are either be your own boss or be underemployed forever because you can't get hired to match your skill level. And if you look at the founders of companies that eventually go public (or at least have the revenue that they could do so), they are pretty much all started by people who had connections and access to their own capital early on. I'm not saying the American dream is dead, but it's never been as great as people make out and it's only getting worse.