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When you go to open a credit card in Europe how do you prove that you are you? What prevents me from pretending to be you?
by harryh 9y ago
When you go to open a credit card in Europe how do you prove that you are you? What prevents me from pretending to be you?
- StavrosK 9y agoYou have to show national ID, a proof of residence and have your tax number ready.
- harryh 9y agoBut the tax number isn't secret right? So that doesn't do much? What is proof of residence? A copy of your apartment lease or something like that?
- StavrosK 9y agoYes, the tax number isn't secret, it's just to prove that you know it and so they can correlate your tax situation, I think. The biggest proof is the identity document, which is not trivial to forge. Proof of residence is a copy of your lease, or a bill by a power or phone company, basically a piece of formal correspondence with your address on it, so you can sort of prove you live where you say. The bank photocopies all this, so if you forge an ID card to include your photo, they store the photo too, and if you get caught you're in deep trouble, as forgery is a serious crime. I think that's actually what prevents most identity theft here.
- harryh 9y agoYa, so I think the big difference between Europe and the US is that you can open a lot of accounts online in the US so there is no opportunity to examine and copy a physical ID card. I can definitely see how that would raise the difficult of pretending to be someone else.
- kuschku 9y agoI just opened a bank account in Germany via an app. I had a choice between either using my eID for verification, or doing a video call and showing the ID into the camera (in a way that their systems can automatically verify the security measures). It took 20 minutes to go from nothing to having an account, and being able to move money to ans from it.
- kaybe 9y agoPlus there is an option where you either go to the local post office or the postman comes and verifies your ID.
- ryanlol 9y ago>The biggest proof is the identity document, which is not trivial to forge. But it's usually trivial to purchase a forgery.
- wmf 9y agoStill, requiring criminals to buy forged IDs is much more friction than not even asking for ID, as happens in the US.
- silversmith 9y agoIf someone is targeting you and especially you, I assume it wouldn't be super complicated. However, purchasing a thousand SSNs and automating signups sounds hell of a lot easier than purchasing a thousand passports and physically visiting the bank offices.
- kuschku 9y agoIf you have a way to circumvent the electronic signing solution used by most European eIDs, then nothing stops you anyway.
- ryanlol 9y agoNobody would ever question a broken chip. I don't think they even read them in most places, perhaps Estonia? (before the Infineon thing anyway)
- Luc 9y agoBanks, police, city administration, doctors, pharmacies, insurance - those are the reasons I've pulled out my ID card in the past 10 years, and every single time it was to read the chip, with barely a passing glance given to the card itself.
- ryanlol 9y agoI suppose you'd just use a passport instead then? Or do they actually verify those too?
- espadrine 9y agoIn France, the institutions emitting the proofs of residence add a 2D-Doc, a flashcode printed on the document that includes the key information, signed with the institution's private key. https://ants.gouv.fr/Les-solutions/2D-Doc https://ants.gouv.fr/Les-solutions/2D-Doc Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fants.gouv.fr%2FLes-solutions%2F2D-Doc&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
- EADGBE 9y agoProof of residence makes it seem like it's not automated. Is the credit card approval process not automated there?
- cr1895 9y ago>What is proof of residence? At least within the Netherlands, your residence is officially registered with the municipality. This is tied in with your Citizen Service Number (BSN). Without this, you cannot open a bank account.
- vorotato 9y agoand I bet you can't get a residence without a bank account huh.
- godzilla82 9y agoDon't the credit card companies do a credit check or is your tax information sufficient to know your credit worthiness? If a credit check is done, do you know which identifier the credit rating agencies use?
- Joeri 9y agoEvery country is different, but here’s the belgian system: There is a national ID number, equivalent to SSN, which is printed on the ID, and to which the credit history is linked. It is used for distinguishing identity, but not for authentication. For authentication you need the physical ID and sometimes the pin code. The ID card carries a digital certificate which makes them hard to forge (I’ve never heard of outright forgery), and allows for online identity (like filing taxes or opening a bank account online). Obtaining a new ID requires either presenting the old one, or visiting the police to have your identity verified in other ways.
- peoplewindow 9y agoCredit cards are harder to obtain. This is not clearly a bad thing.
- harryh 9y agoIt sounds like it's mainly that you have to sign up for one on person? And you can't really do it online? Is that most of it?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- hocuspocus 9y agoI signed up for all my bank accounts and credit cards online. But they have to check your ID, more and more through videochat nowadays, before that you'd either need to mail documents or go to a post office where the staff is able to stamp a form that says they've checked your ID. Also in most European countries the administration knows your official address and companies can check that you live where you pretend to.
- dagw 9y agoSure you can sign up for one online. But at least in Sweden you generally have to identify yourself with a cryptographic token issued by your bank.
- andrewshadura 9y agoThe bank may refuse to issue one if they don't like you, and they often do so. For example, if you're not a citizen of the country. Or don't have permanent residence yet. Or they don't like your accent. Or… My first credit card application was rejected with no explanations.
- ryanlol 9y agoIn Europe credit cards are very rare so bank accounts are usually the target instead. In Europe it's also practical to send wire transfers online without going to a branch, unlike the US. Getting your bank accounts emptied sucks much more than having someone open a credit card in your name.
- harryh 9y agoYou can send wire transfers online in the US with most banks FWIW.
- ryanlol 9y agoUnless you already send wires regularly, they'll tell you to go to a branch once you click send.
- sib 9y agoNot sure what bank you are working with, but that is not my experience (as a US citizen & resident). I have sent both domestic and international wires completely online.
- ryanlol 9y ago> I have sent both domestic and international wires completely online. Were these wires to a company that receives lots of similar wires? Do/did you have a history of sending wire transfers? Were any of these wire transfers a significant chunk of your account balance? All of these things matter. In the US the average person is simply far more likely to be sent to the branch when wiring $10k than in EU.
- krinchan 9y agoOn the other side though, EU wire transfers within SEPA cannot cost more than a domestic transfer and overall the domestic fees are insanely cheap, if not free. In the USA, wire transfers average $10-25 on the outbound. Inbound, domestic wire transfers are often free, but inbound International transfers can run you $15. This fee structure is why you see Vimeo and Square Cash (and PayPal before those) become so popular.
- petre 9y agoYou have an ID card with a photo on it. They're normally renewed every 10 years. For credit cards you must also show income data.
- PeterisP 9y agoThe key limitation is that you'd have to have proper ID. Forging or getting a fake ID is harder than counterfeiting money (maybe accessible to organized crime, but certainly not worth the cost/effort/risk just to steal a few thousand dollars); lost/stolen IDs have a registry that all the banks check; and you have to show up in person so if detected you don't get a second chance, you're leaving the building in handcuffs. Seriously, the only problem with IDs I recall from banking was the use of IDs bought off of homeless people to register shell companies for money laundering, but those were real IDs and usually with the real owner "hired" for the initial account opening.