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Isn't it legally required that you carry your ID at all times unless you are within 200 meters of your home? That would horrify most Americans. I know it is not

Isn't it legally required that you carry your ID at all times unless you are within 200 meters of your home? That would horrify most Americans. I know it is not in reality, but it sounds totalitarian.

peoplewindow 9y ago
Yes. People don't though. In practice people do tend to have a driving license in your wallet. This joyous setup is the result of the Schengen zone. When national borders were "abolished" (not really, they came back due to the migrant crisis) the way governments got police and immigration forces on board with it was to say that everyone had to have their ID on them at all times and an ID check could be done anywhere at all within the zone. I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for not having ID on them though.
- skrause 9y ago
  That's a log of myths and misinformation spread here. In the EU you only have to carry an ID while you're crossing a border. If you stay in another country of the EU you should have your ID available somewhere in that country. But if you actually have to carry around your ID all the time depends on the laws country you're in. Here in Germany you don't.
  - helloindia 9y ago
    Year 2011, I was touring Berlin with a friend, and a policeman asked us to show our ID. So, tourists need to carry passport at all times? How'd police know who is a tourist?
    - zaarn 9y ago
      Spotting tourists is usually not hard for someone who lives at the location. Additionally, it could just have been chance. In general, yes, you should have your ID/passport on you, but there is no real punishment for not having it other than being required to later show up at a police station and/or being escorted by the policeman to your apartment/hotel to show your ID. A bigger problem is usually not having a drivers license on you, that gets some of the people in the police riled up (but again, no real punishment as long as you show up later at the police station)
      - Double_a_92 9y ago
        > A bigger problem is usually not having a drivers license on you Why? What about people that just don't have / need a drivers license?
  - peoplewindow 9y ago
    Direct from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area#In-country_checks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area#In-country_check... It is the obligation of everyone travelling within the area to be able to show a fully valid form of personal identification approved by other Schengen states.[98] and Although travellers within the Schengen Area are no longer required to show documents at an internal border (although there have been some controversial instances when they have, and it is fairly common at major land border crossings with Switzerland), the laws of most countries still require them to carry identity documents Your interpretation of this doesn't seem to be correct. The whole point of Schengen is that you don't have to show ID at internal borders, which were supposed to cease existence. Rather, you have to be able to show your ID at any time whilst travelling ... where "travelling" is such a general concept that it effectively means at all times unless you are e.g. at home.
richardknop 9y ago
It’s required but many people don’t do it. If you get into a situation where police stops you and you don’t have your ID on you, just tell them you forgot it at home or you didn’t take it with you because you just went out for short walk. Police should then drive you home where you show them your ID.
- datenwolf 9y ago
  > (…) It’s required but many people don’t do it (…) Not in general. In Germany you just have to own an ID be able to produce it when legally required. However only under a very narrow set of circumstances it is legal to ask for an ID. The police may ask for an ID only during a "Identitätsfeststellungsverfahren", which is only legal to do if you're suspect of a crime or if you happen to be within an area of specific public vulnerability, i.e. crime hotspots designated for vetting operations. Other than that it is in fact illegal for the police to ask for your ID. But even under that circumstance it is absolutely lawful not to carry an ID with out; worst case scenario is, that the police has to escort you to whereever you have placed your ID and you be able to show to them there. Depending on circumstances this might create (major) inconveniences, but has no legal consequences. In addition to that there are certain business transactions where an ID must be produces. For example when checking into accomodation, closing a contract with a telephone company (that's new since this year, and totally ridiculous) and opening a bank account.
skrause 9y ago
> Isn't it legally required that you carry your ID at all times unless you are within 200 meters of your home? In Germany there is no such requirement, even though many Germans also think that you have to carry it with you. But the Ausweispflicht (Obligation of identification) only means that you have to own an ID, but you can leave it home most of the time (which I do).
- smnrchrds 9y ago
  I should clarify that I was talking about Belgium which was the country the parent comment used as the example. I am aware that the laws are not the same across EU.
- avar 9y ago
  When I lived in Germany I by mistake didn't check into a tram once and was discovered by a ticket inspector. Long story short since I didn't have ID on me I ended up getting escorted by two police officers back to my house to show them my passport. So yes, you don't have to carry ID on you in Germany, but only in the most pedantic sense. You'll just get a free police escort back to where you keep your ID in case you need to identify yourself. That hardly qualifies as not needing to carry ID when going about your business in the sense that Americans would be familiar with.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    But could they have forced you to identify yourself if you hadn't broken some rule? I get it was a mistake (which I've made in the past as well), but still, the US police will probably want to identify you as well if they have reason to fine you.
    - avar 9y ago
      I'm not sure, but in several European countries the police is able to ask you for your ID when you're going about your business, there's no limitation that it must only be in relation to an offence. Thus any interaction with them could result in you needing to put a stop to anything else you're doing as you're escorted back to your house to fetch your ID, unless you're carrying it in the first place. But the example I provided wasn't such an example, since there was a fine involved. However just having compelled ID changes even that situation. If Germany didn't have that I'd probably been able to just pay the fine on the spot without need to establish my identity. I don't believe there's anything equivalent to that in the US. Furthermore since there's no national ID system they don't even know if you have a driver's license, social security number or passport, so their options for compelling you to produce ID are limited.
dagw 9y ago
Isn't it legally required that you carry your ID at all times unless you are within 200 meters of your home? There might be a country somewhere in Europe that has that law, but it's certainly not normal.
- smnrchrds 9y ago
  I was talking about Belgium, which is the country the comment I was replying to had used as example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_national_identity_card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_national_identity_card
thereare5lights 9y ago
That's already the de facto case for non-white Americans. If you don't you risk getting snatched up by ICE.
mdpopescu 9y ago
In Romania it's legally required to carry your ID everywhere. I am not aware of a minimum distance :)
thephyber 9y ago
I think it's only fair to compare that the to _de_ _jure_ status of many modern day US states. More than 23 states require that someone be able to prove their identity (probably with a government-issued card) "if there is reasonable suspicion of a crime"[1]. Given that a book called "Three Felonies a Day" which cites facts such as the number of crimes in the US Code, the fact that most people haven't even started reading it nor have it memorized, nor have the legal skills required to determine whether (if it's even deterministic without a judge/jury) they have committed a crime, I would argue that a clever police officer probably has the ability to use that law as a tool to create a crime where none existed before. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

peoplewindow 9y ago

Yes. People don't though. In practice people do tend to have a driving license in your wallet. This joyous setup is the result of the Schengen zone. When national borders were "abolished" (not really, they came back due to the migrant crisis) the way governments got police and immigration forces on board with it was to say that everyone had to have their ID on them at all times and an ID check could be done anywhere at all within the zone. I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for not having ID on them though.

skrause 9y ago
That's a log of myths and misinformation spread here. In the EU you only have to carry an ID while you're crossing a border. If you stay in another country of the EU you should have your ID available somewhere in that country. But if you actually have to carry around your ID all the time depends on the laws country you're in. Here in Germany you don't.
- helloindia 9y ago
  Year 2011, I was touring Berlin with a friend, and a policeman asked us to show our ID. So, tourists need to carry passport at all times? How'd police know who is a tourist?
  - zaarn 9y ago
    Spotting tourists is usually not hard for someone who lives at the location. Additionally, it could just have been chance. In general, yes, you should have your ID/passport on you, but there is no real punishment for not having it other than being required to later show up at a police station and/or being escorted by the policeman to your apartment/hotel to show your ID. A bigger problem is usually not having a drivers license on you, that gets some of the people in the police riled up (but again, no real punishment as long as you show up later at the police station)
    - Double_a_92 9y ago
      > A bigger problem is usually not having a drivers license on you Why? What about people that just don't have / need a drivers license?
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Direct from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area#In-country_checks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area#In-country_check... It is the obligation of everyone travelling within the area to be able to show a fully valid form of personal identification approved by other Schengen states.[98] and Although travellers within the Schengen Area are no longer required to show documents at an internal border (although there have been some controversial instances when they have, and it is fairly common at major land border crossings with Switzerland), the laws of most countries still require them to carry identity documents Your interpretation of this doesn't seem to be correct. The whole point of Schengen is that you don't have to show ID at internal borders, which were supposed to cease existence. Rather, you have to be able to show your ID at any time whilst travelling ... where "travelling" is such a general concept that it effectively means at all times unless you are e.g. at home.

richardknop 9y ago

It’s required but many people don’t do it. If you get into a situation where police stops you and you don’t have your ID on you, just tell them you forgot it at home or you didn’t take it with you because you just went out for short walk. Police should then drive you home where you show them your ID.

datenwolf 9y ago
> (…) It’s required but many people don’t do it (…) Not in general. In Germany you just have to own an ID be able to produce it when legally required. However only under a very narrow set of circumstances it is legal to ask for an ID. The police may ask for an ID only during a "Identitätsfeststellungsverfahren", which is only legal to do if you're suspect of a crime or if you happen to be within an area of specific public vulnerability, i.e. crime hotspots designated for vetting operations. Other than that it is in fact illegal for the police to ask for your ID. But even under that circumstance it is absolutely lawful not to carry an ID with out; worst case scenario is, that the police has to escort you to whereever you have placed your ID and you be able to show to them there. Depending on circumstances this might create (major) inconveniences, but has no legal consequences. In addition to that there are certain business transactions where an ID must be produces. For example when checking into accomodation, closing a contract with a telephone company (that's new since this year, and totally ridiculous) and opening a bank account.

skrause 9y ago

> Isn't it legally required that you carry your ID at all times unless you are within 200 meters of your home? In Germany there is no such requirement, even though many Germans also think that you have to carry it with you. But the Ausweispflicht (Obligation of identification) only means that you have to own an ID, but you can leave it home most of the time (which I do).

smnrchrds 9y ago
I should clarify that I was talking about Belgium which was the country the parent comment used as the example. I am aware that the laws are not the same across EU.
avar 9y ago
When I lived in Germany I by mistake didn't check into a tram once and was discovered by a ticket inspector. Long story short since I didn't have ID on me I ended up getting escorted by two police officers back to my house to show them my passport. So yes, you don't have to carry ID on you in Germany, but only in the most pedantic sense. You'll just get a free police escort back to where you keep your ID in case you need to identify yourself. That hardly qualifies as not needing to carry ID when going about your business in the sense that Americans would be familiar with.
- icebraining 9y ago
  But could they have forced you to identify yourself if you hadn't broken some rule? I get it was a mistake (which I've made in the past as well), but still, the US police will probably want to identify you as well if they have reason to fine you.
  - avar 9y ago
    I'm not sure, but in several European countries the police is able to ask you for your ID when you're going about your business, there's no limitation that it must only be in relation to an offence. Thus any interaction with them could result in you needing to put a stop to anything else you're doing as you're escorted back to your house to fetch your ID, unless you're carrying it in the first place. But the example I provided wasn't such an example, since there was a fine involved. However just having compelled ID changes even that situation. If Germany didn't have that I'd probably been able to just pay the fine on the spot without need to establish my identity. I don't believe there's anything equivalent to that in the US. Furthermore since there's no national ID system they don't even know if you have a driver's license, social security number or passport, so their options for compelling you to produce ID are limited.

dagw 9y ago

Isn't it legally required that you carry your ID at all times unless you are within 200 meters of your home? There might be a country somewhere in Europe that has that law, but it's certainly not normal.

smnrchrds 9y ago
I was talking about Belgium, which is the country the comment I was replying to had used as example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_national_identity_card https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_national_identity_card

thereare5lights 9y ago

That's already the de facto case for non-white Americans. If you don't you risk getting snatched up by ICE.

mdpopescu 9y ago

In Romania it's legally required to carry your ID everywhere. I am not aware of a minimum distance :)

thephyber 9y ago

I think it's only fair to compare that the to _de_ _jure_ status of many modern day US states. More than 23 states require that someone be able to prove their identity (probably with a government-issued card) "if there is reasonable suspicion of a crime"[1]. Given that a book called "Three Felonies a Day" which cites facts such as the number of crimes in the US Code, the fact that most people haven't even started reading it nor have it memorized, nor have the legal skills required to determine whether (if it's even deterministic without a judge/jury) they have committed a crime, I would argue that a clever police officer probably has the ability to use that law as a tool to create a crime where none existed before. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes