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Let's say this is 99% true--that 99% of the successful entrepreneurs are rich kids and 1% are self-made. If you look at this stat and decide not to start a bus

Let's say this is 99% true--that 99% of the successful entrepreneurs are rich kids and 1% are self-made. If you look at this stat and decide not to start a business, that's fine, because that's what most people do. But those who don't care about this stat--maybe because they care so much about what they're trying to build, or maybe because they're irrationally confident that they can succeed--I think it's fair to say they are a special breed. Special isn't always great, but all great things are special.

sidlls 9y ago
Why do you suppose it's fair to say they're a special breed?
avs733 9y ago
It's not about the stat dictating behavior its about the structures and systems that cause people to by necessity internalize that mental model of risk. They aren't making the decision because of the stat, the stat is simply reporting behavior that already exists. Stop reifying entrepreneurial success in this 'passionate' way because it misattributes reality. That type of self-reinforcing narrative allows this stat to continue to be a thing, and keeps outlier cases outlier cases rather than doing anything to change the underlying variables that make it a reality.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  I'm just stating my own experience. Take it or leave it. Don't play victim man.
  - avs733 9y ago
    I'm not playing the victim. To be transparent I grew up in the class of children who are empowered and have the fiscal/social stability and network to participate in entrepreneurship...which I did. I went to a fancy ass private high school with one of the reddit cofounders, a school that (by nature largely of the socioeconomic status of the students' parents) has produced a number of other founders as well. I've founded/co-founded multiple startups and the most notable quantity of my entrepreneurial friends is that they have a fall back option (not plan...option). That freedom has heavily influenced how I make choices throughout my career in ways that leveraged a safety net that I had and others didn't. Again, I'm not the victim here I'm the victor...but that doesn't preclude me from calling a bad argument a bad argument. There is actual research on this. Expert entrepreneurs evaluate risk based on what would happen in the worst case scenario (the downside risk) as opposed to the potential profit. You flipped the interpretation of the evidence on its head and tried to make poor people feel stupid.
    - cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
      You see, this is the problem. You haven't been in the shoes of the people you think you're advocating for, and I get the good intention, but unless you really have been in that position, you really don't understand their lives. I and many other entrepreneurs I know did not grow up with as blessed situation as you have, and yet I think it's fine. Sure it would have been better if the situation was better, but in the end we all did fine because we tried hard despite the fact. When I see people with victim mindset who just keep saying "Entrepreneurship is only for rich people and that's why I don't do it, the world is not fair", in my eyes they are just losers, because I know from my own experience and countless others that that's not true. To recap, I know of many people from bad situations succeeding despite their bad background just because they worked their asses off, both personally and historically. And you are saying people like us should just give up and live a loser's life thinking it's only rich people who get richer?
azemetre 9y ago
I'd love to start a business but I rely on my employer to give me health insurance and money to pay for rent and food. While I have a modest savings account compared to the average American, trying to justify it on a risky business venture where it would be literally fail into poverty or get moderate success isn't a chance I want to take. I'm going to assume many other people share my thought process as well. Hell, I'm willing to bet health insurance is 95% of the reason why most people won't take chances when it comes to entrepreneurship. Compound this with States that didn't expand medicaid and other politicians that are trying to cut back on healthcare by cutting funding to programs like medicaid and the ACA, it's very easy to understand why the rich and the elite have a massive advantage when it comes to starting businesses. What you are posting goes against the reality many people face, if I could fail into success without paying for rent and healthcare I would but I can't so I won't. Also calling people "special" for succeeding seems very dehumanizing to other people that aren't "special."
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  > I'd love to start a business but I rely on my employer to give me health insurance and money to pay for rent and food I understand if you don't "get it", but this is the reality for most entrepreneurs who start companies. The only difference from them to you is that they start despite the reality, and you don't. If you want to learn more, read up on what AirBnB guys had to do to survive in the early days. I'm not writing this to offend you, I am just stating the fact, hoping that this would encourage you if you were made to believe otherwise all your life. This comes from my own experience and many of my friends who are founders. I know of many friends who have lived off of couchsurfing (or lived off of someone else's closet, i'm not making this up) until their company took off. I know this may sound like a fiction but just want to let you know that this world does exist, it's just that the rest of the world (including those journalists and many people on HN with comfy life) don't know and will never understand why they do it.

sidlls 9y ago

Why do you suppose it's fair to say they're a special breed?

avs733 9y ago

It's not about the stat dictating behavior its about the structures and systems that cause people to by necessity internalize that mental model of risk. They aren't making the decision because of the stat, the stat is simply reporting behavior that already exists. Stop reifying entrepreneurial success in this 'passionate' way because it misattributes reality. That type of self-reinforcing narrative allows this stat to continue to be a thing, and keeps outlier cases outlier cases rather than doing anything to change the underlying variables that make it a reality.

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
I'm just stating my own experience. Take it or leave it. Don't play victim man.
- avs733 9y ago
  I'm not playing the victim. To be transparent I grew up in the class of children who are empowered and have the fiscal/social stability and network to participate in entrepreneurship...which I did. I went to a fancy ass private high school with one of the reddit cofounders, a school that (by nature largely of the socioeconomic status of the students' parents) has produced a number of other founders as well. I've founded/co-founded multiple startups and the most notable quantity of my entrepreneurial friends is that they have a fall back option (not plan...option). That freedom has heavily influenced how I make choices throughout my career in ways that leveraged a safety net that I had and others didn't. Again, I'm not the victim here I'm the victor...but that doesn't preclude me from calling a bad argument a bad argument. There is actual research on this. Expert entrepreneurs evaluate risk based on what would happen in the worst case scenario (the downside risk) as opposed to the potential profit. You flipped the interpretation of the evidence on its head and tried to make poor people feel stupid.
  - cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
    You see, this is the problem. You haven't been in the shoes of the people you think you're advocating for, and I get the good intention, but unless you really have been in that position, you really don't understand their lives. I and many other entrepreneurs I know did not grow up with as blessed situation as you have, and yet I think it's fine. Sure it would have been better if the situation was better, but in the end we all did fine because we tried hard despite the fact. When I see people with victim mindset who just keep saying "Entrepreneurship is only for rich people and that's why I don't do it, the world is not fair", in my eyes they are just losers, because I know from my own experience and countless others that that's not true. To recap, I know of many people from bad situations succeeding despite their bad background just because they worked their asses off, both personally and historically. And you are saying people like us should just give up and live a loser's life thinking it's only rich people who get richer?

azemetre 9y ago

I'd love to start a business but I rely on my employer to give me health insurance and money to pay for rent and food. While I have a modest savings account compared to the average American, trying to justify it on a risky business venture where it would be literally fail into poverty or get moderate success isn't a chance I want to take. I'm going to assume many other people share my thought process as well. Hell, I'm willing to bet health insurance is 95% of the reason why most people won't take chances when it comes to entrepreneurship. Compound this with States that didn't expand medicaid and other politicians that are trying to cut back on healthcare by cutting funding to programs like medicaid and the ACA, it's very easy to understand why the rich and the elite have a massive advantage when it comes to starting businesses. What you are posting goes against the reality many people face, if I could fail into success without paying for rent and healthcare I would but I can't so I won't. Also calling people "special" for succeeding seems very dehumanizing to other people that aren't "special."

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
> I'd love to start a business but I rely on my employer to give me health insurance and money to pay for rent and food I understand if you don't "get it", but this is the reality for most entrepreneurs who start companies. The only difference from them to you is that they start despite the reality, and you don't. If you want to learn more, read up on what AirBnB guys had to do to survive in the early days. I'm not writing this to offend you, I am just stating the fact, hoping that this would encourage you if you were made to believe otherwise all your life. This comes from my own experience and many of my friends who are founders. I know of many friends who have lived off of couchsurfing (or lived off of someone else's closet, i'm not making this up) until their company took off. I know this may sound like a fiction but just want to let you know that this world does exist, it's just that the rest of the world (including those journalists and many people on HN with comfy life) don't know and will never understand why they do it.