4 ms·

tl;dr They are "stronger than ever" because all the other grocery chains are shitting their pants at the Amazon - Whole Foods deal and calling Instacart to shor

tl;dr They are "stronger than ever" because all the other grocery chains are shitting their pants at the Amazon - Whole Foods deal and calling Instacart to shore up their ecommerce operations. This does not in any way, shape or form suggest that Instacart actually has a strong long term position or that their solution will help these grocers prevail against a direct assault from Amazon. Their largely manual, layered-over-retail fulfillment model has inefficiencies that cause higher costs and stocking issues vs. the high-efficiency warehouse approach that Amazon has perfected.

octernion 9y ago
Their largely manual, layered-over-retail fulfillment model has inefficiencies that cause higher costs and stocking issues vs. the high-efficiency warehouse approach that Amazon has perfected. [citation needed] you mean the "perfected" approach they are shutting down in 9 states? (https://www.recode.net/2017/11/3/16601488/amazon-fresh-cancellation-shut-down-grocery-delivery-whole-foods https://www.recode.net/2017/11/3/16601488/amazon-fresh-cance...) noting this as an engineer on the team that does order fulfillment @ instacart and who actually knows our model...
- abalone 9y ago
  Citation? Ok, you asked for it... "Instacart is infuriatingly bad. Replacing your main entree meat item with nothing, no call/notification, negates all convenience it offers" "My 1st @Instacart experience will be my last. 26 of my 49 items have been replaced but mostly refunded so I still have to go to the store." "i once had them tell a store had no cheese. completely out of cheese. no cheese was available to replace. i was naturally pretty cheesed off" "@instacart Why should I continue to use you all if every time I order, a huge % of items are out of stock and replaced? Update your database" "Same happened to me! 14 items, and 8 ended up being replaced. I'm going to give them another chance, hopefully it was just a bad shopper." ...and more.[1] Clearly the lack of integration with realtime inventory systems is a weak point. But perhaps you could clarify how the model is supposed to work. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/01/instacart-needs-to-deeply-invest-in-grocers-and-user-personalization-to-survive/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/01/instacart-needs-to-deeply-...
  - octernion 9y ago
    I was noting our model in comparison to Amazon, which has it's own set of inefficiencies -- capital for warehouses far outside of city boundaries, the dedicated labor force/trucks, spoilage and selection issues, etc. In no way am I noting that our model is perfect or without inefficiencies, just that the idea that "Amazon has the perfect and most efficient grocery delivery system" and "to attempt to use local retail grocery stores as a collective warehouse is not profitable" is just a fallacy.
    - abalone 9y ago
      I didn't say either of those things. Those are fake quotes. It is odd that you characterize warehouse real estate, labor and delivery fleet costs as "inefficiencies" in comparison to retail stores. Precisely the opposite is true. Retail stores have vastly higher costs per square foot, higher headcount, and are not at all optimized for delivery vehicle operations. I did not say Amazon has a perfect grocery solution in place today. They just closed the Whole Foods deal a couple months ago. What I am observing is that all these grocers calling up Instacart in a panic is not at all reflective of a strong long-term position. Instacart's unintegrated, layered-over-retail model carries all the overhead of retail and then some. Amazon is building a fully integrated supply chain, warehousing, delivery and retail system and so has a lot more operational efficiencies it can bring to bear.
      - octernion 9y ago
        Those are not "fake quotes" -- they are directly in the parent I was replying to... I am not sure you can matter-of-fact state that "Precisely the opposite is true"; this is in fact, not true. I am not going to respond further as it's not entirely clear where you are getting any of your information ("layered-over-retail model carries all the overhead of retail and then some" as an example of a totally unsubstantiated and untrue statement).
djur 9y ago
I have access to both Amazon Prime Now and Instacart in my market. Prime Now has access to a high-quality local grocery chain, and Instacart has basically everything else including Whole Foods. That local chain is much better in terms of selection and quality than anything Instacart has, especially Whole Foods, which I find to be overpriced for pretty indifferent quality. Despite that, the service quality from Instacart is so much better than Prime Now that I prefer to use them unless there's something I absolutely cannot get except from that local chain. I'm crossing my fingers hoping that the outcome of Amazon's acquisition is that Instacart loses Whole Foods and the local chain moves over to Instacart, because then I will never order groceries from Prime Now ever again. By service quality I mean all of these: good judgment in selecting items like produce and meat (although the meat quality from Whole Foods is very inferior), ability to add items before the order is shopped (you can't do that even if you place an order for the _next day_ with Prime Now), ability to cancel or otherwise alter an order (I had to cancel a Prime Now delivery in an emergency, and it required calling customer service), interactivity in selecting substitutions, good judgment in selecting substitutions, and accuracy and granularity of order status page. I'm not saying I haven't had the occasional bad experience with Instacart on any of those, but they're good enough that I'd trust them to get me the groceries I need before a party I forgot to shop for. Prime Now I wouldn't trust unless I knew I had a good fallback if they mess up.
- philwelch 9y ago
  Prime Now and Amazon Fresh seem very different to me. I use Prime Now as a faster version of Amazon.com--if I do something stupid like move apartments and forget to buy a shower curtain until after the shops are closed, I can put in a Prime Now order for first thing in the morning. My wife uses Prime Now as a slower and more cost-effective version of goPuff sometimes. Amazon Fresh, in contrast, is my primary source of groceries. Unlike Instacart, prices are consistently reasonable, the website actually knows what's in inventory so I don't have to make backup plans for everything I'm trying to get, and when I buy frozen foods, I get handy chunks of dry ice that I can use to make homemade smoke machines. Amazon Fresh is the first service I've ever used--and this includes previous incarnations of Amazon Fresh--that makes me seriously wonder whether I will ever make a trip to the grocery store again.

octernion 9y ago

Their largely manual, layered-over-retail fulfillment model has inefficiencies that cause higher costs and stocking issues vs. the high-efficiency warehouse approach that Amazon has perfected. [citation needed] you mean the "perfected" approach they are shutting down in 9 states? (https://www.recode.net/2017/11/3/16601488/amazon-fresh-cancellation-shut-down-grocery-delivery-whole-foods https://www.recode.net/2017/11/3/16601488/amazon-fresh-cance...) noting this as an engineer on the team that does order fulfillment @ instacart and who actually knows our model...

abalone 9y ago
Citation? Ok, you asked for it... "Instacart is infuriatingly bad. Replacing your main entree meat item with nothing, no call/notification, negates all convenience it offers" "My 1st @Instacart experience will be my last. 26 of my 49 items have been replaced but mostly refunded so I still have to go to the store." "i once had them tell a store had no cheese. completely out of cheese. no cheese was available to replace. i was naturally pretty cheesed off" "@instacart Why should I continue to use you all if every time I order, a huge % of items are out of stock and replaced? Update your database" "Same happened to me! 14 items, and 8 ended up being replaced. I'm going to give them another chance, hopefully it was just a bad shopper." ...and more.[1] Clearly the lack of integration with realtime inventory systems is a weak point. But perhaps you could clarify how the model is supposed to work. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/01/instacart-needs-to-deeply-invest-in-grocers-and-user-personalization-to-survive/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/01/instacart-needs-to-deeply-...
- octernion 9y ago
  I was noting our model in comparison to Amazon, which has it's own set of inefficiencies -- capital for warehouses far outside of city boundaries, the dedicated labor force/trucks, spoilage and selection issues, etc. In no way am I noting that our model is perfect or without inefficiencies, just that the idea that "Amazon has the perfect and most efficient grocery delivery system" and "to attempt to use local retail grocery stores as a collective warehouse is not profitable" is just a fallacy.
  - abalone 9y ago
    I didn't say either of those things. Those are fake quotes. It is odd that you characterize warehouse real estate, labor and delivery fleet costs as "inefficiencies" in comparison to retail stores. Precisely the opposite is true. Retail stores have vastly higher costs per square foot, higher headcount, and are not at all optimized for delivery vehicle operations. I did not say Amazon has a perfect grocery solution in place today. They just closed the Whole Foods deal a couple months ago. What I am observing is that all these grocers calling up Instacart in a panic is not at all reflective of a strong long-term position. Instacart's unintegrated, layered-over-retail model carries all the overhead of retail and then some. Amazon is building a fully integrated supply chain, warehousing, delivery and retail system and so has a lot more operational efficiencies it can bring to bear.
    - octernion 9y ago
      Those are not "fake quotes" -- they are directly in the parent I was replying to... I am not sure you can matter-of-fact state that "Precisely the opposite is true"; this is in fact, not true. I am not going to respond further as it's not entirely clear where you are getting any of your information ("layered-over-retail model carries all the overhead of retail and then some" as an example of a totally unsubstantiated and untrue statement).

djur 9y ago

I have access to both Amazon Prime Now and Instacart in my market. Prime Now has access to a high-quality local grocery chain, and Instacart has basically everything else including Whole Foods. That local chain is much better in terms of selection and quality than anything Instacart has, especially Whole Foods, which I find to be overpriced for pretty indifferent quality. Despite that, the service quality from Instacart is so much better than Prime Now that I prefer to use them unless there's something I absolutely cannot get except from that local chain. I'm crossing my fingers hoping that the outcome of Amazon's acquisition is that Instacart loses Whole Foods and the local chain moves over to Instacart, because then I will never order groceries from Prime Now ever again. By service quality I mean all of these: good judgment in selecting items like produce and meat (although the meat quality from Whole Foods is very inferior), ability to add items before the order is shopped (you can't do that even if you place an order for the _next day_ with Prime Now), ability to cancel or otherwise alter an order (I had to cancel a Prime Now delivery in an emergency, and it required calling customer service), interactivity in selecting substitutions, good judgment in selecting substitutions, and accuracy and granularity of order status page. I'm not saying I haven't had the occasional bad experience with Instacart on any of those, but they're good enough that I'd trust them to get me the groceries I need before a party I forgot to shop for. Prime Now I wouldn't trust unless I knew I had a good fallback if they mess up.

philwelch 9y ago
Prime Now and Amazon Fresh seem very different to me. I use Prime Now as a faster version of Amazon.com--if I do something stupid like move apartments and forget to buy a shower curtain until after the shops are closed, I can put in a Prime Now order for first thing in the morning. My wife uses Prime Now as a slower and more cost-effective version of goPuff sometimes. Amazon Fresh, in contrast, is my primary source of groceries. Unlike Instacart, prices are consistently reasonable, the website actually knows what's in inventory so I don't have to make backup plans for everything I'm trying to get, and when I buy frozen foods, I get handy chunks of dry ice that I can use to make homemade smoke machines. Amazon Fresh is the first service I've ever used--and this includes previous incarnations of Amazon Fresh--that makes me seriously wonder whether I will ever make a trip to the grocery store again.