5 ms·

(I haven't watched the doc or followed Chomsky much) I think a lot of the contention is putting faith in the "the market" (but I would hope even staunchest lib

by pfranz 9y ago

(I haven't watched the doc or followed Chomsky much) I think a lot of the contention is putting faith in the "the market" (but I would hope even staunchest libertarians realize at times that can be disproportionately large companies) or governments. I feel like the extremes on both sides put too much faith in one or the other. To keep each other in check one can't be too much larger, or wield too much power over the other. When companies become multinational, things can get weird because they can evade single governments. I'm not saying it's always bad, but it is hard to keep them in check.

ttoinou 9y ago
I put my faith in voluntarily actions, competitive entreprises, innovative ideas and good mechanisms of check and balances. The first word that comes to my mind is 'free market', not 'huge government'..
- pfranz 9y ago
  I guess I know what side you put faith in. "Free market" is just an illusionary goal--there's no such thing in practice. Every aspect of reality creates some bias to one party or another. Governments try to encourage competitive entreprises, innovative ideas and good mechanisms of check and balances by eliminating monopolies, reducing dynasties/incumbencies and other barriers of entry, in addition to other things like maintaining a fair legal system.
  - ttoinou 9y ago
    Every aspect of reality creates some bias to one party or another ? And every government action steals resources from someone and prevents them to do it on their own. Have youbever seen govt reducing barriers of entry ? I need examples Only govt can create monopolies, unless you're talking about mafias.
    - pfranz 9y ago
      I wholly admit the government can do those things (that was the point in my original reply). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_market The only example there that could be remotely tied to the government is cable companies (I think the last-mile expense barrier to entry is the main contributor to those monopolies). All of them prevent a "free market" and the idea is that governments break those things up or regulate them. Breaking up a monopoly reduces barrier to entry. After the breakup of at&t, long distance rates dropped due to the new competition. A few things most governments do to reduce the barrier of entry when starting or running a business: maintain a legal system to facilitate agreements between parties, educate a workforce so there's a pool of citizens with basic skills you can hire or sell things to, maintain open access roadways for transport of workforce and goods, maintain a trusted currency for the exchange of goods and services. All of those would be huge hurdles if I wanted to open a lemonade stand. > unless you're talking about mafias. So they're the only fly in the ointment if governments didn't exist? What is the solution to mafias if the government just steals resources? I'm earnestly curious, if governments only oppress a market, where your best or ideal example? Is there any free market that doesn't have a government? How come when governments fail (or countries without strong governments) a strong free market doesn't develop to overtake the EU or US?
      - ttoinou 9y ago
        All of them prevent a "free market" and the idea is that governments break those things up or regulate them What did govt do exactly to prevent, I quote the WP article, " food markets in cinemas, airports, and sports arenas, college textbooks, the Kosher food market in the United Kingdom, and phone calls and food in jails and prisons" ? maintain a legal system to facilitate agreements between parties Yes ! maintain a trusted currency for the exchange of goods and services Yes but they also forbid some forms of private currencies and make mandatory to keep using their currency. If their currency was so great, why would it need force to make it mandatory ? if governments only oppress a market I didn't say that. Maybe govt are the best solution we have right now for homeland security, police and basic justice. For the rest of its activites, I'm pretty sure it's useless

by pfranz 9y ago

ttoinou 9y ago

I put my faith in voluntarily actions, competitive entreprises, innovative ideas and good mechanisms of check and balances. The first word that comes to my mind is 'free market', not 'huge government'..

pfranz 9y ago
I guess I know what side you put faith in. "Free market" is just an illusionary goal--there's no such thing in practice. Every aspect of reality creates some bias to one party or another. Governments try to encourage competitive entreprises, innovative ideas and good mechanisms of check and balances by eliminating monopolies, reducing dynasties/incumbencies and other barriers of entry, in addition to other things like maintaining a fair legal system.
- ttoinou 9y ago
  Every aspect of reality creates some bias to one party or another ? And every government action steals resources from someone and prevents them to do it on their own. Have youbever seen govt reducing barriers of entry ? I need examples Only govt can create monopolies, unless you're talking about mafias.
  - pfranz 9y ago
    I wholly admit the government can do those things (that was the point in my original reply). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_market The only example there that could be remotely tied to the government is cable companies (I think the last-mile expense barrier to entry is the main contributor to those monopolies). All of them prevent a "free market" and the idea is that governments break those things up or regulate them. Breaking up a monopoly reduces barrier to entry. After the breakup of at&t, long distance rates dropped due to the new competition. A few things most governments do to reduce the barrier of entry when starting or running a business: maintain a legal system to facilitate agreements between parties, educate a workforce so there's a pool of citizens with basic skills you can hire or sell things to, maintain open access roadways for transport of workforce and goods, maintain a trusted currency for the exchange of goods and services. All of those would be huge hurdles if I wanted to open a lemonade stand. > unless you're talking about mafias. So they're the only fly in the ointment if governments didn't exist? What is the solution to mafias if the government just steals resources? I'm earnestly curious, if governments only oppress a market, where your best or ideal example? Is there any free market that doesn't have a government? How come when governments fail (or countries without strong governments) a strong free market doesn't develop to overtake the EU or US?
    - ttoinou 9y ago
      All of them prevent a "free market" and the idea is that governments break those things up or regulate them What did govt do exactly to prevent, I quote the WP article, " food markets in cinemas, airports, and sports arenas, college textbooks, the Kosher food market in the United Kingdom, and phone calls and food in jails and prisons" ? maintain a legal system to facilitate agreements between parties Yes ! maintain a trusted currency for the exchange of goods and services Yes but they also forbid some forms of private currencies and make mandatory to keep using their currency. If their currency was so great, why would it need force to make it mandatory ? if governments only oppress a market I didn't say that. Maybe govt are the best solution we have right now for homeland security, police and basic justice. For the rest of its activites, I'm pretty sure it's useless