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We had this in Burlington, VT and now we're selling it off because the city could not run it effectively (massive debt). Be careful — government is usually not

We had this in Burlington, VT and now we're selling it off because the city could not run it effectively (massive debt). Be careful — government is usually not a great runner of a customer-service focused business. Further, do you really want government (municipal) or otherwise being your ISP? Having access to all of your traffic lines?

Clubber 9y ago
All of your points are valid, but let me counter argue. Be careful — government is usually not a great runner of a customer-service focused business. Maybe, maybe not, but we know Comcast and TWC aren't a great runner of customer-service focused business. Further, do you really want government (municipal) or otherwise being your ISP? Having access to all of your traffic lines? No, but I'm assuming they already have access without a warrant now.
- WoodenChair 9y ago
  So, you chose the red herrings of the worst possible ISPs. There are great commercial ISPs too. What's more important is competition, which again is limited by government (government decides who gets access to build-out lines). I agree, federal government does have the resources to spy, and uses them very effectively. Why make it that much easier for our local governments to do that as well.
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    What's more important is competition Right, and that's a key ingredient that is missing in Fort Collins. Two main providers, who have been operating in typical duopoly fashion. I.e. you get one or the other, not both, and even if you can get both, the other is no better.
  - 15charlimit 9y ago
    > There are great commercial ISPs too. Sure, if you're lucky enough to live in an area with "actual" competition, which is the crux of the entire issue. The vast, vast majority of us are stuck with 1 or 2 (if we're lucky) options, both relatively shitty, with one being markedly inferior, and both absurdly overpriced for the connection you get.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    >is limited by government (government decides who gets access to build-out lines). The local municipalities should build out the lines on the taxpayer dime, then lease them to the IPS's and get an ROI. Contract out maintenance.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    You're gonna have to prove that claim, that this makes it easier for governments to spy on people.
actuallyalys 9y ago
I'm not sure governments are actually worse than businesses at that on average. I've had excellent service at libraries, for example. Polls suggest most people have a positive view of libraries. [0] I don't see how a local municipality having access is worse than a large corporation. At least municipalities aren't incentivized to extract more revenue by selling data. It seems like regulations and technology are better solutions to privacy issues than keeping ISPs private. [0] http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/09/libraries-2016/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/09/libraries-2016/
s73ver_ 9y ago
"Further, do you really want government (municipal) or otherwise being your ISP? Having access to all of your traffic lines?" Why do people keep bringing this up? They act like government is going to be able to bypass the current laws in place in a way that they couldn't with Comcast.

Clubber 9y ago

All of your points are valid, but let me counter argue. Be careful — government is usually not a great runner of a customer-service focused business. Maybe, maybe not, but we know Comcast and TWC aren't a great runner of customer-service focused business. Further, do you really want government (municipal) or otherwise being your ISP? Having access to all of your traffic lines? No, but I'm assuming they already have access without a warrant now.

WoodenChair 9y ago
So, you chose the red herrings of the worst possible ISPs. There are great commercial ISPs too. What's more important is competition, which again is limited by government (government decides who gets access to build-out lines). I agree, federal government does have the resources to spy, and uses them very effectively. Why make it that much easier for our local governments to do that as well.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  What's more important is competition Right, and that's a key ingredient that is missing in Fort Collins. Two main providers, who have been operating in typical duopoly fashion. I.e. you get one or the other, not both, and even if you can get both, the other is no better.
- 15charlimit 9y ago
  > There are great commercial ISPs too. Sure, if you're lucky enough to live in an area with "actual" competition, which is the crux of the entire issue. The vast, vast majority of us are stuck with 1 or 2 (if we're lucky) options, both relatively shitty, with one being markedly inferior, and both absurdly overpriced for the connection you get.
- Clubber 9y ago
  >is limited by government (government decides who gets access to build-out lines). The local municipalities should build out the lines on the taxpayer dime, then lease them to the IPS's and get an ROI. Contract out maintenance.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  You're gonna have to prove that claim, that this makes it easier for governments to spy on people.

actuallyalys 9y ago

I'm not sure governments are actually worse than businesses at that on average. I've had excellent service at libraries, for example. Polls suggest most people have a positive view of libraries. [0] I don't see how a local municipality having access is worse than a large corporation. At least municipalities aren't incentivized to extract more revenue by selling data. It seems like regulations and technology are better solutions to privacy issues than keeping ISPs private. [0] http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/09/libraries-2016/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/09/libraries-2016/

s73ver_ 9y ago

"Further, do you really want government (municipal) or otherwise being your ISP? Having access to all of your traffic lines?" Why do people keep bringing this up? They act like government is going to be able to bypass the current laws in place in a way that they couldn't with Comcast.