4 ms·

London, UK. Hong Kong, China Sydney, Australia

by iampims 16y ago

mahmud 16y ago
I have lived in all three. London, yes; not exactly a cheap place to live but there is a huge local market you can tap into, immediately. Hong Kong; hard if you're not a native. The place is geared towards old business. The expats are mostly either in finance, import export, or doing teaching. Really hectic and you can't put your guards down (i.e. you can't just leave the house in shorts and sandals to sit at an outdoor cafe.) Sydney. Great place. But, fuck, it's expensive. My weekly "man money", just for drinks, lunch meetings and coffee, was $500. Rent is cheaper in the Western Suburbs, and still cheaper in far dodgy places like Paramatta, but IME, if you go anywhere west of Central you're entering a technological wasteland (except maybe for Newtown.)
- gizmomagico 16y ago
  What do you mean about HK being hard if you're not a native, and not being able to go out in shorts and sandals, etc? Could you outline the steps necessary to start a business in Hong Kong? IIRC there was a requirement for a local "secretary", which sounded confusing.
  - mahmud 16y ago
    Hong Kong culture is absolutely merciless about people living on a low budget and running business on the cheap. Specially for foreigners. There, conspicuous spending is a way of life and you're expected to throw cash at everything. The way Honkies and expats make their living is to constantly rub other people's backs, host parties, exchange gifts and keep up appearances. If you're not in >$1000 suit and not seen in exclusive hangouts or driving a black European import, you're a nobody. You have very few options for living (there are no suburbs or neighboring towns.) You either hangout with the tourists and transients merchants in the southern tip of Kowloon, and get nickled and dimed by merchants. Or you can suit up and live somewhere "decent", HK Island side and live the spender life I described above. Or you can live in the fringes of HK, in the New Territories, Lantau Island or some other no-man's land. The first thing anybody will ask you is "where do you live". The location of your office is of prime importance. You will see most HK companies have photos of their office buildings, that's because there are a ton of paper businesses there and people go overboard to establish their solvency, if not their legitimacy. Everyone has a business card too. The business registration requirement for HK is essentially $1k. Their laws are so flexible as to be an informality. If you have the money, Hong Kong will accommodate all your wishes. You just pay any accountant or lawyer anywhere in Tsim Tsa Tsui and you get a folder the same day. Then you take $5k to HSBC and open a business account. You're done. You ring up your favorite credit-card processor and get an ACH.
    - gizmomagico 16y ago
      Thanks for the explanation! It sounds like it's a crazy place. So all you need is $1k and you're in business? But what would I be paying an accountant or lawyer for - handling the registration? Couldn't I just do that myself, and/or did the "secretary" requirement not exist after all? I suppose $5k is the bank's only requirement for starting a business account then? > If you have the money, Hong Kong will accommodate all your wishes. Would "having the money" mean being rich, or just being able to pay whatever fees you come across?
    - lzw 16y ago
      I love the response. See, I don't care about "keeping up appearances" or anyone thinking that I'm "a nobody"-- in hong kong. I'm not going to be trying to persuade anyone in hong kong of anything, other than technical points at meetups, maybe. But $6k to have a business and bank account and be set up, and it sounds like you can do it in a day, that is valuable. That is damn good compared to many parts of the world, especially if speed is important.
      - chpapa 16y ago
        I'm a native in Hong Kong and have been doing my first startup (PandaForm) here, hope these information are helpful: 1. It is true that you can have only HKD 5k (~USD 650) to start a business up here. Something like HKD 5k (~ USD 650) to hire someone to help you do the company / business registration so you don't have to worry about. Every year you need to pay a small fee for the registration again and pay another HKD 5k for an certified accountant to do your audit report. That's all. 2. Frankly the government is not very "pro-technology" but there are still different programs from funding (such as SERAP) to cheap and nice office (Cyberport and Science Park). Plus you enjoy a nice but very cheap Internet and wireless network here in HK. 3. Lack of funding is probably the biggest problem for startups in Hong Kong, but since you've mentioned it is not that important… Otherwise a lot of local startup moved to ShenZhen or Guangzhou solely for better funding opportunities. 4. Startup Culture is becoming better here. Just take a look at Startups Saturday 2010 (a event for startups this Sat.) here: http://startupshk.com/sus2010/ http://startupshk.com/sus2010/ There are about 4 - 5 different technology user-groups / web events every months.. 5. Other factual information to share: 5.1. HKD have a linked exchange rate with USD for HKD7.75 - 7.85 : $1 5.2. Rent is about HKD 10k - 16k per month for a reasonable nice office for 5 man team. 5.3. Young programmer salary are about HKD15k - 20k per month
- AN447 16y ago
  London only if you have alot of capital behind you. Everything here is expensive so you better have a nice VC behind you. Finding a cheap place to stay in the city - Good luck mate.
  - ndimopoulos 16y ago
    You could find a 'cheap' place but it will have to be in Zone 6 of the Underground which is quite a few miles away from the center of London. Additionally if you want to have decent offices you will pay for it - dearly
- damncabbage 16y ago
  I live in Newtown. Tech-wise, all I can find is a lone computer repair business. I'd love to know if there's anything around here besides cafés, Thai restaurants and cheap share houses. :D
  - mahmud 16y ago
    There is a higher concentration of technical people there. Most hackers I met by chance in Sydney were in Newtown.

London, UK. Hong Kong, China Sydney, Australia

by iampims 16y ago

London, UK. Hong Kong, China Sydney, Australia

I have lived in all three. London, yes; not exactly a cheap place to live but there is a huge local market you can tap into, immediately. Hong Kong; hard if you're not a native. The place is geared towards old business. The expats are mostly either in finance, import export, or doing teaching. Really hectic and you can't put your guards down (i.e. you can't just leave the house in shorts and sandals to sit at an outdoor cafe.) Sydney. Great place. But, fuck, it's expensive. My weekly "man money", just for drinks, lunch meetings and coffee, was $500. Rent is cheaper in the Western Suburbs, and still cheaper in far dodgy places like Paramatta, but IME, if you go anywhere west of Central you're entering a technological wasteland (except maybe for Newtown.)

gizmomagico 16y ago
What do you mean about HK being hard if you're not a native, and not being able to go out in shorts and sandals, etc? Could you outline the steps necessary to start a business in Hong Kong? IIRC there was a requirement for a local "secretary", which sounded confusing.
- mahmud 16y ago
  Hong Kong culture is absolutely merciless about people living on a low budget and running business on the cheap. Specially for foreigners. There, conspicuous spending is a way of life and you're expected to throw cash at everything. The way Honkies and expats make their living is to constantly rub other people's backs, host parties, exchange gifts and keep up appearances. If you're not in >$1000 suit and not seen in exclusive hangouts or driving a black European import, you're a nobody. You have very few options for living (there are no suburbs or neighboring towns.) You either hangout with the tourists and transients merchants in the southern tip of Kowloon, and get nickled and dimed by merchants. Or you can suit up and live somewhere "decent", HK Island side and live the spender life I described above. Or you can live in the fringes of HK, in the New Territories, Lantau Island or some other no-man's land. The first thing anybody will ask you is "where do you live". The location of your office is of prime importance. You will see most HK companies have photos of their office buildings, that's because there are a ton of paper businesses there and people go overboard to establish their solvency, if not their legitimacy. Everyone has a business card too. The business registration requirement for HK is essentially $1k. Their laws are so flexible as to be an informality. If you have the money, Hong Kong will accommodate all your wishes. You just pay any accountant or lawyer anywhere in Tsim Tsa Tsui and you get a folder the same day. Then you take $5k to HSBC and open a business account. You're done. You ring up your favorite credit-card processor and get an ACH.
  - gizmomagico 16y ago
    Thanks for the explanation! It sounds like it's a crazy place. So all you need is $1k and you're in business? But what would I be paying an accountant or lawyer for - handling the registration? Couldn't I just do that myself, and/or did the "secretary" requirement not exist after all? I suppose $5k is the bank's only requirement for starting a business account then? > If you have the money, Hong Kong will accommodate all your wishes. Would "having the money" mean being rich, or just being able to pay whatever fees you come across?
  - lzw 16y ago
    I love the response. See, I don't care about "keeping up appearances" or anyone thinking that I'm "a nobody"-- in hong kong. I'm not going to be trying to persuade anyone in hong kong of anything, other than technical points at meetups, maybe. But $6k to have a business and bank account and be set up, and it sounds like you can do it in a day, that is valuable. That is damn good compared to many parts of the world, especially if speed is important.
    - chpapa 16y ago
      I'm a native in Hong Kong and have been doing my first startup (PandaForm) here, hope these information are helpful: 1. It is true that you can have only HKD 5k (~USD 650) to start a business up here. Something like HKD 5k (~ USD 650) to hire someone to help you do the company / business registration so you don't have to worry about. Every year you need to pay a small fee for the registration again and pay another HKD 5k for an certified accountant to do your audit report. That's all. 2. Frankly the government is not very "pro-technology" but there are still different programs from funding (such as SERAP) to cheap and nice office (Cyberport and Science Park). Plus you enjoy a nice but very cheap Internet and wireless network here in HK. 3. Lack of funding is probably the biggest problem for startups in Hong Kong, but since you've mentioned it is not that important… Otherwise a lot of local startup moved to ShenZhen or Guangzhou solely for better funding opportunities. 4. Startup Culture is becoming better here. Just take a look at Startups Saturday 2010 (a event for startups this Sat.) here: http://startupshk.com/sus2010/ http://startupshk.com/sus2010/ There are about 4 - 5 different technology user-groups / web events every months.. 5. Other factual information to share: 5.1. HKD have a linked exchange rate with USD for HKD7.75 - 7.85 : $1 5.2. Rent is about HKD 10k - 16k per month for a reasonable nice office for 5 man team. 5.3. Young programmer salary are about HKD15k - 20k per month
AN447 16y ago
London only if you have alot of capital behind you. Everything here is expensive so you better have a nice VC behind you. Finding a cheap place to stay in the city - Good luck mate.
- ndimopoulos 16y ago
  You could find a 'cheap' place but it will have to be in Zone 6 of the Underground which is quite a few miles away from the center of London. Additionally if you want to have decent offices you will pay for it - dearly
damncabbage 16y ago
I live in Newtown. Tech-wise, all I can find is a lone computer repair business. I'd love to know if there's anything around here besides cafés, Thai restaurants and cheap share houses. :D
- mahmud 16y ago
  There is a higher concentration of technical people there. Most hackers I met by chance in Sydney were in Newtown.