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> I personally do not believe in objective morality. Then why is murder wrong?

by explainplease 9y ago

fastball 9y ago
Who says it's wrong?
- tankenmate 9y ago
  If you truly question the morality of murder then it might not be far wrong to say that you are a sociopath.
  - fastball 9y ago
    If you don't question the morality of everything you haven't looked hard enough.
- explainplease 9y ago
  Most people who aren't murderers, and a few who are. Are you saying that murder is not wrong? BTW, please don't troll. If you're just asking, "Who says murder is wrong?" to be rhetorical or make a point, don't. Instead, make your point explicitly in the first place, so that we can move forward in the discussion. I'm not interested in playing games, but I am interested in seriously discussing the topic. So, either you think murder is wrong, or you don't--or you think that sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, which boils down to isn't. So which is it?
  - fastball 9y ago
    Is killing in war murder? If not, why not? Is killing in self-defense murder? If not why not? If yes, how are they "objectively" wrong? If you're a pacifist that believes all killing is wrong, fair enough. But that doesn't make your standards "objective". There are shades of grey to all morality, you pretending otherwise does you no service. The same applies in this case. Having popular opinion on your side does not make your morality "objective". That's not how this works.
    - explainplease 9y ago
      Yes, of course, the question is the definition of murder. How do you define it? > There are shades of grey to all morality, you pretending otherwise does you no service. I'm not pretending that. Please don't jump ahead in the discussion. > Having popular opinion on your side does not make your morality "objective". That's not how this works. Again, I haven't claimed this. It will be hard to discuss this if you ascribe to me positions I haven't taken.
      - fastball 9y ago
        fastball - Who says [murder] is wrong? explainplease - Most people who aren't murderers, and a few who are. Are you saying that murder is not wrong? I'm sorry if I took your response of "many people think this" as a serious response. You are not giving me much else to work with, I'm afraid. You have also failed to answer any of my subsequent questions about murder and killing. And if you can't answer my questions about murder, which apparently is such an easy moral issue for you, then how can you possibly think you have a handle on the nuance of taxation?
        explainplease 9y ago
        You're the one dodging questions here. You imply that you think murder isn't wrong, but you decline to define it. You raise strawman questions about "killing" when I specifically asked about murder. It's very simple: do you think murder is wrong? Yes or no? If your answer is yes, then we can talk about the definition of murder as opposed to war, justified homicide, etc. If your answer is no, then we can talk about objective morality, and why it wouldn't be ok for me to kill you just because I feel like it--i.e. why there is objective morality, because if there isn't, then there is no moral reason for me not to kill you and take all your stuff whenever I feel like it. > I'm sorry if I took your response of "many people think this" as a serious response. ... And if you can't answer my questions about murder, which apparently is such an easy moral issue for you. You literally asked, "Who says murder is wrong?" I literally answered the question. Your question was obviously rhetorical, yet pointless, because you didn't make a point by asking it. So I then asked the relevant, next, serious question, to move the discussion forward. You then declined to answer it, instead making silly personal attacks, as if performing for an audience. Note, BTW, that I haven't said anything about taxation. It seems to be you who is not interested in seriously discussing objective morality, yet it is you who raised the topic, and you obviously know that most people disagree. Therefore you seem to be trolling. A shame, because it could be an interesting conversation. Please prove me wrong by taking the conversation seriously now.

> I personally do not believe in objective morality. Then why is murder wrong?

fastball 9y ago

Who says it's wrong?

tankenmate 9y ago
If you truly question the morality of murder then it might not be far wrong to say that you are a sociopath.
- fastball 9y ago
  If you don't question the morality of everything you haven't looked hard enough.
explainplease 9y ago
Most people who aren't murderers, and a few who are. Are you saying that murder is not wrong? BTW, please don't troll. If you're just asking, "Who says murder is wrong?" to be rhetorical or make a point, don't. Instead, make your point explicitly in the first place, so that we can move forward in the discussion. I'm not interested in playing games, but I am interested in seriously discussing the topic. So, either you think murder is wrong, or you don't--or you think that sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't, which boils down to isn't. So which is it?
- fastball 9y ago
  Is killing in war murder? If not, why not? Is killing in self-defense murder? If not why not? If yes, how are they "objectively" wrong? If you're a pacifist that believes all killing is wrong, fair enough. But that doesn't make your standards "objective". There are shades of grey to all morality, you pretending otherwise does you no service. The same applies in this case. Having popular opinion on your side does not make your morality "objective". That's not how this works.
  - explainplease 9y ago
    Yes, of course, the question is the definition of murder. How do you define it? > There are shades of grey to all morality, you pretending otherwise does you no service. I'm not pretending that. Please don't jump ahead in the discussion. > Having popular opinion on your side does not make your morality "objective". That's not how this works. Again, I haven't claimed this. It will be hard to discuss this if you ascribe to me positions I haven't taken.
    - fastball 9y ago
      fastball - Who says [murder] is wrong? explainplease - Most people who aren't murderers, and a few who are. Are you saying that murder is not wrong? I'm sorry if I took your response of "many people think this" as a serious response. You are not giving me much else to work with, I'm afraid. You have also failed to answer any of my subsequent questions about murder and killing. And if you can't answer my questions about murder, which apparently is such an easy moral issue for you, then how can you possibly think you have a handle on the nuance of taxation?
      - explainplease 9y ago
        You're the one dodging questions here. You imply that you think murder isn't wrong, but you decline to define it. You raise strawman questions about "killing" when I specifically asked about murder. It's very simple: do you think murder is wrong? Yes or no? If your answer is yes, then we can talk about the definition of murder as opposed to war, justified homicide, etc. If your answer is no, then we can talk about objective morality, and why it wouldn't be ok for me to kill you just because I feel like it--i.e. why there is objective morality, because if there isn't, then there is no moral reason for me not to kill you and take all your stuff whenever I feel like it. > I'm sorry if I took your response of "many people think this" as a serious response. ... And if you can't answer my questions about murder, which apparently is such an easy moral issue for you. You literally asked, "Who says murder is wrong?" I literally answered the question. Your question was obviously rhetorical, yet pointless, because you didn't make a point by asking it. So I then asked the relevant, next, serious question, to move the discussion forward. You then declined to answer it, instead making silly personal attacks, as if performing for an audience. Note, BTW, that I haven't said anything about taxation. It seems to be you who is not interested in seriously discussing objective morality, yet it is you who raised the topic, and you obviously know that most people disagree. Therefore you seem to be trolling. A shame, because it could be an interesting conversation. Please prove me wrong by taking the conversation seriously now.