3 ms·

I'm not looking forward to this, I realize they've made speed improvements, but the entire reason I'm on FF at all is Tab Groups, which seems to be dead. I know

by mwill 9y ago

I'm not looking forward to this, I realize they've made speed improvements, but the entire reason I'm on FF at all is Tab Groups, which seems to be dead. I know it's not heavily used, but it's going to be painful for me to get used to browsing without it. I'm aware that there's a proposal to add an API to make it possible under the new system, but last time I checked the ticket, recent activity was someone from the team arguing that they'd already agreed it was a bad idea at a meeting, and it simply should not be added. Honestly, I'm going to hang on a legacy version for as long as feasible and then just switch back to Chrome.

KozmoNau7 9y ago
Painful? Nah. Use a combination of windows and tabs to achieve the same grouping. Use the awesome bar to search and switch between tabs, if you need the search functionality. Stop having 100+ tabs open, that's what bookmarks are for. I'm sorry to say that your usage pattern is extremely non-standard and based on the whims of an unpaid extension developer. So you can learn the intended usage pattern for the browser, donate to the extension developer to make him port the extension or create a new extension yourself. Jumping ship to a browser known for privacy issues seems like a really bad choice in this context.
- mwill 9y ago
  I'm not at the whims of an add-on developer, I'm at the whims of Mozilla. The new extension API doesn't currently have the control required to make Tab Groups, if it did I would port it myself. I won't go in to my usage specifically but windows tabs and bookmarks doesn't work nearly as well as tab groups for me personally. That's how I did it for years before switching to Firefox, and its painful for my workflow. I used Chrome(ium) for years before tab groups got me to switch to FF, if you take away tab groups, I'd rather just go back to it, if for no other reason that principle. Mozilla won me over by having the more flexible browser, that flexibility is going away, I have no loyalty to them beyond that, honestly.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    "That's how we've always done it". AKA the most dangerous phrase in the language.
    - mwill 9y ago
      I posted this in another reply chain but: I still use Chrome on my phone, so I get tab sync back by switching, which I gave up to gain tab groups. I buy in to Google's ecosystem with a personal account and 2 business accounts. The slight integration is nice. I also generally prefer Chromes UI. So Chrome has at least 3 points in its favor, Firefox has Tab Groups, which are going away, and the idea that Mozilla is sort of more benevolent than Google, which doesn't really move me. I know Firefox has more to offer others but thats how it shakes out for me.
nicoburns 9y ago
I feel your pain on the tab groups extension. I find that extension really helpful too. I'm pretty optimistic that this will be a temporary pain though. My reading of that issue (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515) is that there are a lot of people interested in working on it, and they even have working code. It does seem that a relatively senior Mozilla employee who has joined the discussion late is against the idea. But others have already chimed in with why their objections don't apply to this new approach. I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't fixed by FF59.
- mwill 9y ago
  Ah last I looked was a couple weeks ago, right after the comment basically saying "we tried this before and decided against it", it does look slightly more optimistic. But even the new comments mention that there isn't a consensus on if they actually want to implement it. There have been bugzilla issues that seem simple that have been ignored for a literal decade, so I won't celebrate until this actually lands. If it does I'll probably roll the extension myself if no one beats me to it.
nhumrich 9y ago
> then just switch back to Chrome. I understand your want for tab groups, but what does switching to chrome matter? You cant do tab groups in chrome either. What does chrome have that ff57 doesnt?
- mwill 9y ago
  I used Chrome(ium) for years before tab groups got me to switch to FF, if you take away tab groups, I'd rather just go back to it, if for no other reason that principle. Mozilla won me over by having the more flexible browser, that flexibility is going away, I have no loyalty to them beyond that, honestly. May not make much sense but that's how I feel.
  - dralley 9y ago
    It's still going to be the more flexible browser. It already supports webextension APIs that Chrome doesn't, with more on the roadmap. Of course it still pales in comparison to what you could do with XUL, but the point remains. Firefox addons will still be more capable than Chrome ones.
    - mwill 9y ago
      But the only add-ons I actually use are ad block, tab groups, and lastpass. A half measure doesn't win me anything. I still use Chrome on my phone, so I get tab sync back by switching, which I gave up to gain tab groups. I buy in to Google's ecosystem with a personal account and 2 business accounts. The slight integration is nice. I also generally prefer Chromes UI. Again, I appreciate my use case is niche, I'm not saying Mozilla have made a mistake and should bow to my whims, I'm just saying I was on Chrome for more than half a decade, I switched to Firefox specifically for tab groups. With them seemingly going away, all things being equal I prefer Chrome.

by mwill 9y ago

KozmoNau7 9y ago

Painful? Nah. Use a combination of windows and tabs to achieve the same grouping. Use the awesome bar to search and switch between tabs, if you need the search functionality. Stop having 100+ tabs open, that's what bookmarks are for. I'm sorry to say that your usage pattern is extremely non-standard and based on the whims of an unpaid extension developer. So you can learn the intended usage pattern for the browser, donate to the extension developer to make him port the extension or create a new extension yourself. Jumping ship to a browser known for privacy issues seems like a really bad choice in this context.

mwill 9y ago
I'm not at the whims of an add-on developer, I'm at the whims of Mozilla. The new extension API doesn't currently have the control required to make Tab Groups, if it did I would port it myself. I won't go in to my usage specifically but windows tabs and bookmarks doesn't work nearly as well as tab groups for me personally. That's how I did it for years before switching to Firefox, and its painful for my workflow. I used Chrome(ium) for years before tab groups got me to switch to FF, if you take away tab groups, I'd rather just go back to it, if for no other reason that principle. Mozilla won me over by having the more flexible browser, that flexibility is going away, I have no loyalty to them beyond that, honestly.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  "That's how we've always done it". AKA the most dangerous phrase in the language.
  - mwill 9y ago
    I posted this in another reply chain but: I still use Chrome on my phone, so I get tab sync back by switching, which I gave up to gain tab groups. I buy in to Google's ecosystem with a personal account and 2 business accounts. The slight integration is nice. I also generally prefer Chromes UI. So Chrome has at least 3 points in its favor, Firefox has Tab Groups, which are going away, and the idea that Mozilla is sort of more benevolent than Google, which doesn't really move me. I know Firefox has more to offer others but thats how it shakes out for me.

nicoburns 9y ago

I feel your pain on the tab groups extension. I find that extension really helpful too. I'm pretty optimistic that this will be a temporary pain though. My reading of that issue (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1384515) is that there are a lot of people interested in working on it, and they even have working code. It does seem that a relatively senior Mozilla employee who has joined the discussion late is against the idea. But others have already chimed in with why their objections don't apply to this new approach. I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't fixed by FF59.

mwill 9y ago
Ah last I looked was a couple weeks ago, right after the comment basically saying "we tried this before and decided against it", it does look slightly more optimistic. But even the new comments mention that there isn't a consensus on if they actually want to implement it. There have been bugzilla issues that seem simple that have been ignored for a literal decade, so I won't celebrate until this actually lands. If it does I'll probably roll the extension myself if no one beats me to it.

nhumrich 9y ago

> then just switch back to Chrome. I understand your want for tab groups, but what does switching to chrome matter? You cant do tab groups in chrome either. What does chrome have that ff57 doesnt?

mwill 9y ago
I used Chrome(ium) for years before tab groups got me to switch to FF, if you take away tab groups, I'd rather just go back to it, if for no other reason that principle. Mozilla won me over by having the more flexible browser, that flexibility is going away, I have no loyalty to them beyond that, honestly. May not make much sense but that's how I feel.
- dralley 9y ago
  It's still going to be the more flexible browser. It already supports webextension APIs that Chrome doesn't, with more on the roadmap. Of course it still pales in comparison to what you could do with XUL, but the point remains. Firefox addons will still be more capable than Chrome ones.
  - mwill 9y ago
    But the only add-ons I actually use are ad block, tab groups, and lastpass. A half measure doesn't win me anything. I still use Chrome on my phone, so I get tab sync back by switching, which I gave up to gain tab groups. I buy in to Google's ecosystem with a personal account and 2 business accounts. The slight integration is nice. I also generally prefer Chromes UI. Again, I appreciate my use case is niche, I'm not saying Mozilla have made a mistake and should bow to my whims, I'm just saying I was on Chrome for more than half a decade, I switched to Firefox specifically for tab groups. With them seemingly going away, all things being equal I prefer Chrome.