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While I appreciate the sentiment it is time to start taking a more global look at these antics of companies. I run my own company in the UK and I know for a fa

While I appreciate the sentiment it is time to start taking a more global look at these antics of companies. I run my own company in the UK and I know for a fact that apple makes a massive amount of money selling in this country. Now as a small business owner I am taxed at 20% on corporate profit. (19% going forward now due to a tax cut in corporate rates introduced during the last financial year). You then also get taxed on any dividends you pay out to yourself as the owner of that company according to normal income tax rates, (Sure you get a £5000 dividend tax free allowance but after that you are on normal income tax bracket rates). There is simply NO way for me to change this. I pay my taxes each year diligently, otherwise I end up in jail. However massive companies that make billion in revenue from countries get to play the tax game and effective pay percentage wise a LOT less than small businesses in the UK while benefiting from the infrastructure provided and paid for by public funds that they contribute very little to. That infrastructure includes the Healthcare and Education system. Both which are under constant stress due to under funding. I am not for high taxation but I surely am for everyone paying their fare share. The employees working for these companies pay many times more tax on their salaries compared to what the corporation pays on its profits. At some point this vampire squid behaviour of extracting out of a country without helping fund the infrastructure that helped make it be a successful market cannot continue. This behaviour also gives me VERY little hope that AI and Automation will ever lead to the benefit of but a select few. /<rant>

jaymzcampbell 9y ago
I have been having the exact same argument with a friend on Facebook (I know, I know)... There is something about this whole thing that people seem to rationalize. My friend's ultimate argument was "well they pay more tax than I will in my lifetime anyway so what's the big deal". I had to give up in the end.
- Swinx43 9y ago
  It is honestly a really tough point to argue with people. It becomes even worse when the person you are arguing with is in the fortunate position of having a good income and no current true worries. I used to be one of those people that believed that tax is theft until I have seen how quickly your situation can change due to unforeseen circumstance. A close family member got a terminal medical diagnosis and was the main source of income for the family. The person lived an exceptionally healthy life and got diagnosed with a condition for which they exhibited none of the normal risk factors. At that point where your survivor biased gets challenged by real hard hitting life events your illusions are shattered. I never wish anyone to experience the same, but I do wish more people can be made to realise that paying tax to look after those services that look after us all when life goes horribly wrong is actually worth it! (And that includes the corporations that benefit from having a fit and healthy workforce and consumer base)
Cakez0r 9y ago
That's an interesting case to bring up. In the UK, it is very common (I'd go as far as to say it's the norm) for software contractors to start a single-person limited company and pay themselves through a mixture of salary and dividend in order to optimise their taxes. I wonder how many of these people consider that they are committing "tax avoidance" and "exploiting legal loopholes" too.
- mprev 9y ago
  Maybe 15 years ago. IR35 has made that approach tax-neutral, at best.
  - Cakez0r 9y ago
    I am new to the contracting game in the UK, but I haven't met a software contractor yet who isn't using this approach. My accountant even recommended it to me when I set up. It is definitely a non-trivial tax saving. Do you pay yourself dividends from your company? Or do you use your profits to increase your director salary so that you pay tax at the same rate as a full-time PAYE employee? Not meaning to call you out personally on this, but I want to highlight that "tax avoidance" is a weasel word. Most people can and do optimise their taxes if the law allows it and don't consider themselves to be "avoiding tax" or acting immorally.
    - Swinx43 9y ago
      Accountants keep on recommending this method for some reason but honestly if you do the tax calculations yourself you realise that you are not much better off. It used to be the case that you were better off but the last 5 years the options for UK limited Company contractors have been reduced to a point where the running costs of the company combined with the taxes bring you to effectively the same amount of tax paid as a permanent employee.
    - mprev 9y ago
      I didn't say anything about avoidance, so I'm not sure your questions about dividends etc were directed at me. At the turn of the century, it was common for software developers in the UK to leave their job on a Friday and then show up to do the same role at the same desk on the following Monday but suddenly they were a LTD company acting as an independent contractor. IR35 sought to put an end to that. It didn't apply to genuine freelancers, although there were risks. And, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about not meeting a software contractor who isn't taking that approach ... as that approach is the very definition of software contracting :)

jaymzcampbell 9y ago

I have been having the exact same argument with a friend on Facebook (I know, I know)... There is something about this whole thing that people seem to rationalize. My friend's ultimate argument was "well they pay more tax than I will in my lifetime anyway so what's the big deal". I had to give up in the end.

Swinx43 9y ago
It is honestly a really tough point to argue with people. It becomes even worse when the person you are arguing with is in the fortunate position of having a good income and no current true worries. I used to be one of those people that believed that tax is theft until I have seen how quickly your situation can change due to unforeseen circumstance. A close family member got a terminal medical diagnosis and was the main source of income for the family. The person lived an exceptionally healthy life and got diagnosed with a condition for which they exhibited none of the normal risk factors. At that point where your survivor biased gets challenged by real hard hitting life events your illusions are shattered. I never wish anyone to experience the same, but I do wish more people can be made to realise that paying tax to look after those services that look after us all when life goes horribly wrong is actually worth it! (And that includes the corporations that benefit from having a fit and healthy workforce and consumer base)

Cakez0r 9y ago

That's an interesting case to bring up. In the UK, it is very common (I'd go as far as to say it's the norm) for software contractors to start a single-person limited company and pay themselves through a mixture of salary and dividend in order to optimise their taxes. I wonder how many of these people consider that they are committing "tax avoidance" and "exploiting legal loopholes" too.

mprev 9y ago
Maybe 15 years ago. IR35 has made that approach tax-neutral, at best.
- Cakez0r 9y ago
  I am new to the contracting game in the UK, but I haven't met a software contractor yet who isn't using this approach. My accountant even recommended it to me when I set up. It is definitely a non-trivial tax saving. Do you pay yourself dividends from your company? Or do you use your profits to increase your director salary so that you pay tax at the same rate as a full-time PAYE employee? Not meaning to call you out personally on this, but I want to highlight that "tax avoidance" is a weasel word. Most people can and do optimise their taxes if the law allows it and don't consider themselves to be "avoiding tax" or acting immorally.
  - Swinx43 9y ago
    Accountants keep on recommending this method for some reason but honestly if you do the tax calculations yourself you realise that you are not much better off. It used to be the case that you were better off but the last 5 years the options for UK limited Company contractors have been reduced to a point where the running costs of the company combined with the taxes bring you to effectively the same amount of tax paid as a permanent employee.
  - mprev 9y ago
    I didn't say anything about avoidance, so I'm not sure your questions about dividends etc were directed at me. At the turn of the century, it was common for software developers in the UK to leave their job on a Friday and then show up to do the same role at the same desk on the following Monday but suddenly they were a LTD company acting as an independent contractor. IR35 sought to put an end to that. It didn't apply to genuine freelancers, although there were risks. And, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about not meeting a software contractor who isn't taking that approach ... as that approach is the very definition of software contracting :)