5 ms·

Rossini’s sins

53 points by tintinnabula 9y ago

saghm 9y ago
I'm not familiar with this publication, so it might just be that I'm not the target audience, but it throws me that there are a bunch of French phrases used in the article without translations being provided. Is this intended to just be for people who can read them, or am I supposed to just keep reading and pretend that I understand what's being said?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- milankovic 9y ago
  Probably just written for self-fellating film auteurs..
- jonstewart 9y ago
  This sort of thing is (forgive me) _de rigeur_ in cultural criticism. It's possible to infer the rough meaning of many from context clues. The article also settles down quickly, with subsequent usages of French or Italian being titles of works. Sometimes it's nice to be exposed to new things, n'est-ce pas?
- srslydudexyz 9y ago
  I think it’s mostly for effect, but you’d be hard-pressed to find people in the classical music sphere who don’t understand some French. Oh also Google Translate exists?
- srslydudexyz 9y ago
  I do think it’s funny, though, that when HN has literally no analysis to offer, either out of laziness or a fundamental inability to understand something that doesn’t end in .js, all they do is criticize some minuscule, tangential fact about the article’s structure or layout or how “the scrolling is fucked up on my phone”.
- kmill 9y ago
  > Is this intended to just be for people who can read them, or am I supposed to just keep reading and pretend that I understand what's being said? You may also keep reading and not pretend that you understand what it says, like I did. The Péchés de Vieillesse really are quite delightful (first recording I found) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xqLvT-Esk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xqLvT-Esk
- mmjaa 9y ago
  I think its intended to enrich your literate senses in that, you probably could google these phrases and learn something new, while at the same time expanding your own perception of the subject of the article. I mean, there is a time and place for "I don't have time to look that up" and there is also a time and place for "I will take the time to look that up", and the only divider between is whether the source material is coming from a high-brow, intellectually stimulating source .. or not.
- Bromskloss 9y ago
  I enjoy them, even in cases where I don't understand them, because I get a sense of setting the bar high, and that much is expected from me.
p15 9y ago
As someone who didn’t know much about Rossini, this was both entertaining and enriching. == New Criterion is in my view the best magazine around, so always love seeing it on HN! Hilton Kramer, the late New York Times Critic, founded it to pursue a Modernist, as opposed to Postmodernist, approach to criticism. It is unabashedly highbrow. While certainly accessible to a cultured layman, it is not dumbed down, and there is no pretense to accessibility or relevance for the modish chattering classes (e.g. NYT, NYBooks, New Yorker). Thus the articles can be intimidating. This is not snobbery but in an idealistic belief in unifying power of high culture – a universal striving towards perfection, accessible to anyone who makes the effort. TNC’s contrarianism thus contributes to its small circulation of 6,000. In an age of left-liberalism / “progressivism” and relativism, it is classically liberal and aspires to universal truths. Many will thus despise what they view as a Eurocentric, chauvinistic veneration of “dead white men,” as well as an evil discriminatory belief in “high culture” – that some art is better than the rest. TNC’s polemic (elsewhere) can be tiresome – depending where you stand, either inflammatory or preaching to the choir. But this sort of article – educating us about someone we should know – is what makes it great. For those of us who missed out on critical theory, “this is Good Art” is a lot more accessible than today’s typical Pomo. And there is a certain satisfaction that Rossini, who perhaps we knew only as a "name to conjure with," as well as his Péchés, are a little less unfamiliar than when we started.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  > "In an age of left-liberalism / “progressivism” and relativism, it is classically liberal and aspires to universal truths." Are you attempting to imply that engaging in your favoured brand of politics is a prerequisite in the quest for universal truth?
- ohthehugemanate 9y ago
  As a professional classical musician who thought he knew a lot about Rossini... This article was fantastic. Unfortunately it didn't mention that he wasn't just getting fat off of crap food. He was friends with the greatest celebrity chefs in Europe, including Antonin carême ("the father of haute cuisine", inventor of souffle), Casimir Moissons, and Francois Chateaubriand (yes, that's where the steak comes from). Rossini himself published two cookbooks, one exclusively about recipes with truffles, and invented many dishes. The most enduring dish is probably Tournedos Rossini, which he invented with Moissons to top the Chateaubriand steak. It's a filet mignon with foie gras, and about $200 (today's price) worth of black Périgord truffle. The legend is that when Rossini described his custom order to a cook, the man said he couldn't bear to see it made. "So turn your back, then!" Said Rossini - "tournez le dos". Two favorite anecdotes: a biographer was interviewing people in Rossini's neighborhood, and asked the grocery owner up the street about the composer. The guy had no idea Rossini was a great composer, but "if he knows as much about music as he does about food, he must be a very great composer indeed!" And Rossini himself used to say that he had only ever cried three times in his life. Once, when his first opera flopped. Once, when he first heard the great violinist Paganini play. And once, when he attended a boat party, and witnessed a beautiful truffle-stuffed turkey fall overboard. For more about Rossini and food, this is probably a good start: https://behind-the-french-menu.blogspot.co.at/2012/06/tournedos-rossini-after-150-years-still.html?m=1 https://behind-the-french-menu.blogspot.co.at/2012/06/tourne...
jstewartmobile 9y ago
About what I expected for a piece on classical music. Composer writes a batch of pleasant little ditties, critic spins that in to page-after-page of breathless prose as though they were the second coming. No 19th century salon piece is going to live up to that.

53 points by tintinnabula 9y ago

I'm not familiar with this publication, so it might just be that I'm not the target audience, but it throws me that there are a bunch of French phrases used in the article without translations being provided. Is this intended to just be for people who can read them, or am I supposed to just keep reading and pretend that I understand what's being said?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
milankovic 9y ago
Probably just written for self-fellating film auteurs..
jonstewart 9y ago
This sort of thing is (forgive me) _de rigeur_ in cultural criticism. It's possible to infer the rough meaning of many from context clues. The article also settles down quickly, with subsequent usages of French or Italian being titles of works. Sometimes it's nice to be exposed to new things, n'est-ce pas?
srslydudexyz 9y ago
I think it’s mostly for effect, but you’d be hard-pressed to find people in the classical music sphere who don’t understand some French. Oh also Google Translate exists?
srslydudexyz 9y ago
I do think it’s funny, though, that when HN has literally no analysis to offer, either out of laziness or a fundamental inability to understand something that doesn’t end in .js, all they do is criticize some minuscule, tangential fact about the article’s structure or layout or how “the scrolling is fucked up on my phone”.
kmill 9y ago
> Is this intended to just be for people who can read them, or am I supposed to just keep reading and pretend that I understand what's being said? You may also keep reading and not pretend that you understand what it says, like I did. The Péchés de Vieillesse really are quite delightful (first recording I found) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xqLvT-Esk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4xqLvT-Esk
mmjaa 9y ago
I think its intended to enrich your literate senses in that, you probably could google these phrases and learn something new, while at the same time expanding your own perception of the subject of the article. I mean, there is a time and place for "I don't have time to look that up" and there is also a time and place for "I will take the time to look that up", and the only divider between is whether the source material is coming from a high-brow, intellectually stimulating source .. or not.
Bromskloss 9y ago
I enjoy them, even in cases where I don't understand them, because I get a sense of setting the bar high, and that much is expected from me.

p15 9y ago

As someone who didn’t know much about Rossini, this was both entertaining and enriching. == New Criterion is in my view the best magazine around, so always love seeing it on HN! Hilton Kramer, the late New York Times Critic, founded it to pursue a Modernist, as opposed to Postmodernist, approach to criticism. It is unabashedly highbrow. While certainly accessible to a cultured layman, it is not dumbed down, and there is no pretense to accessibility or relevance for the modish chattering classes (e.g. NYT, NYBooks, New Yorker). Thus the articles can be intimidating. This is not snobbery but in an idealistic belief in unifying power of high culture – a universal striving towards perfection, accessible to anyone who makes the effort. TNC’s contrarianism thus contributes to its small circulation of 6,000. In an age of left-liberalism / “progressivism” and relativism, it is classically liberal and aspires to universal truths. Many will thus despise what they view as a Eurocentric, chauvinistic veneration of “dead white men,” as well as an evil discriminatory belief in “high culture” – that some art is better than the rest. TNC’s polemic (elsewhere) can be tiresome – depending where you stand, either inflammatory or preaching to the choir. But this sort of article – educating us about someone we should know – is what makes it great. For those of us who missed out on critical theory, “this is Good Art” is a lot more accessible than today’s typical Pomo. And there is a certain satisfaction that Rossini, who perhaps we knew only as a "name to conjure with," as well as his Péchés, are a little less unfamiliar than when we started.

ZenoArrow 9y ago
> "In an age of left-liberalism / “progressivism” and relativism, it is classically liberal and aspires to universal truths." Are you attempting to imply that engaging in your favoured brand of politics is a prerequisite in the quest for universal truth?
ohthehugemanate 9y ago
As a professional classical musician who thought he knew a lot about Rossini... This article was fantastic. Unfortunately it didn't mention that he wasn't just getting fat off of crap food. He was friends with the greatest celebrity chefs in Europe, including Antonin carême ("the father of haute cuisine", inventor of souffle), Casimir Moissons, and Francois Chateaubriand (yes, that's where the steak comes from). Rossini himself published two cookbooks, one exclusively about recipes with truffles, and invented many dishes. The most enduring dish is probably Tournedos Rossini, which he invented with Moissons to top the Chateaubriand steak. It's a filet mignon with foie gras, and about $200 (today's price) worth of black Périgord truffle. The legend is that when Rossini described his custom order to a cook, the man said he couldn't bear to see it made. "So turn your back, then!" Said Rossini - "tournez le dos". Two favorite anecdotes: a biographer was interviewing people in Rossini's neighborhood, and asked the grocery owner up the street about the composer. The guy had no idea Rossini was a great composer, but "if he knows as much about music as he does about food, he must be a very great composer indeed!" And Rossini himself used to say that he had only ever cried three times in his life. Once, when his first opera flopped. Once, when he first heard the great violinist Paganini play. And once, when he attended a boat party, and witnessed a beautiful truffle-stuffed turkey fall overboard. For more about Rossini and food, this is probably a good start: https://behind-the-french-menu.blogspot.co.at/2012/06/tournedos-rossini-after-150-years-still.html?m=1 https://behind-the-french-menu.blogspot.co.at/2012/06/tourne...

jstewartmobile 9y ago

About what I expected for a piece on classical music. Composer writes a batch of pleasant little ditties, critic spins that in to page-after-page of breathless prose as though they were the second coming. No 19th century salon piece is going to live up to that.