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Tesla's approach may really have fundamental problems, but it's impossible to compare the results from a driver assist system used by untrained consumers with a

by gok 9y ago

Tesla's approach may really have fundamental problems, but it's impossible to compare the results from a driver assist system used by untrained consumers with an autonomous driving system that's only being used with professional safety drivers in conditions for which is expected to function properly.

speedplane 9y ago
IMHO, the big difference between the Uber/Tesla approach and the Waymo approach is that Waymo seems to understand that this is an extremely hard problem to solve. Uber/Tesla seem to be happy with getting 90% of the way there and make headlines. I don't think either Uber or Tesla have really committed to the technology the way Waymo has. As far as the legacy auto-makers, it's really unclear what they are up to. I think they appreciate the difficulty, but probably don't have the skills to move faster than Google.
Animats 9y ago
It's quite possible to compare them. Google has never done anything like this.[1] This is a Tesla vehicle on "autopilot" crashing into a street sweeper without even slowing down. It's on an expressway, where Tesla's "autopilot" is supposed to work. The street sweeper is big, partly blocking the lane. The driver trusted Tesla's "autopilot" to do something reasonable. It didn't. The driver was killed. That blood is on Elon Musk's hands. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfcumft5n8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfcumft5n8
- greglindahl 9y ago
  This is incorrect, and you know it's incorrect. You're talking about it like it was a Level 3 system, but it's Level 2.
- gok 9y ago
  The details of that video are fuzzy at best. The crash happened 8 months before it was reported in western media, before Tesla made any announcements about fully self driving systems. It's not even entirely clear Auto Pilot was involved. Still, there have been confirmed accidents involving Auto Pilot. That's not to say it hasn't been acting as designed. It is currently a system to help drivers when they make a mistake, not a way to prevent drivers from needing to drive. They've said it will do more eventually, but that's not what they're selling. It's entirely possible that Waymo's system is completely incapable of dealing with street sweepers stopped the middle of a passing lane of a highway. If that's the case, there's no way the professional test drivers would be taking the car into that kind of situation. The public isn't given that degree of insight into their testing methodologies. This contrasts with shipping systems, where the public is implicitly given a users (potentially mis)using the system. It also means that Tesla has orders of magnitude more distance of real-world test data than non-shipping systems.
  - Animats 9y ago
    Excuses, excuses. Waymo's system regularly demonstrates its ability to navigate around unexpected obstacles. Tesla just has "lane changing", as if roads were railroad tracks.

by gok 9y ago

speedplane 9y ago

IMHO, the big difference between the Uber/Tesla approach and the Waymo approach is that Waymo seems to understand that this is an extremely hard problem to solve. Uber/Tesla seem to be happy with getting 90% of the way there and make headlines. I don't think either Uber or Tesla have really committed to the technology the way Waymo has. As far as the legacy auto-makers, it's really unclear what they are up to. I think they appreciate the difficulty, but probably don't have the skills to move faster than Google.

Animats 9y ago

It's quite possible to compare them. Google has never done anything like this.[1] This is a Tesla vehicle on "autopilot" crashing into a street sweeper without even slowing down. It's on an expressway, where Tesla's "autopilot" is supposed to work. The street sweeper is big, partly blocking the lane. The driver trusted Tesla's "autopilot" to do something reasonable. It didn't. The driver was killed. That blood is on Elon Musk's hands. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfcumft5n8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfcumft5n8

greglindahl 9y ago
This is incorrect, and you know it's incorrect. You're talking about it like it was a Level 3 system, but it's Level 2.
gok 9y ago
The details of that video are fuzzy at best. The crash happened 8 months before it was reported in western media, before Tesla made any announcements about fully self driving systems. It's not even entirely clear Auto Pilot was involved. Still, there have been confirmed accidents involving Auto Pilot. That's not to say it hasn't been acting as designed. It is currently a system to help drivers when they make a mistake, not a way to prevent drivers from needing to drive. They've said it will do more eventually, but that's not what they're selling. It's entirely possible that Waymo's system is completely incapable of dealing with street sweepers stopped the middle of a passing lane of a highway. If that's the case, there's no way the professional test drivers would be taking the car into that kind of situation. The public isn't given that degree of insight into their testing methodologies. This contrasts with shipping systems, where the public is implicitly given a users (potentially mis)using the system. It also means that Tesla has orders of magnitude more distance of real-world test data than non-shipping systems.
- Animats 9y ago
  Excuses, excuses. Waymo's system regularly demonstrates its ability to navigate around unexpected obstacles. Tesla just has "lane changing", as if roads were railroad tracks.