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Ah yes, gotta love H-1B threads. The latent nativism among the Hacker News crowd is laid bare. Here's a radical proposal: give anyone with a clean criminal rec

Ah yes, gotta love H-1B threads. The latent nativism among the Hacker News crowd is laid bare. Here's a radical proposal: give anyone with a clean criminal record and a job offer a green card. No limits, no $100k minimum wage, no protectionism. If you, with all the advantages that natives get (networks, language, NETWORKS), can be beat by an immigrant with zero social connections, you probably are worth less than you think you are. Time to compete, pal. Anything less is opportunity hoarding based on the patch of dirt you were born on.

EdSharkey 9y ago
I just don't like to see people made into indentured servants. Here's my radical proposal: let H1B's change jobs once a year, as long as they're employed somewhere in the industry they're here for and their visa hasn't expired, they can stay. "Sponsoring" companies should not be allowed to keep slaves. I don't think your radical proposal makes much sense. What's the benefit to a country to basically throw its borders wide open?
- damnyou 9y ago
  > What's the benefit to a country to basically throw its borders wide open? More people means a bigger economy. Immigrants -- at least the ones that choose to immigrate -- are by definition risk-takers. Risk-taking is core to entrepreneurship. I hope I don't have to defend the value of entrepreneurship on this site. We've known for thousands of years that free trade is a net positive for everyone involved. Why would free immigration be any different? The US had open borders for centuries. It became the most powerful country in the world because of open borders. Here's an economist far more literate than me making the case: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number-of-immigrants.html http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number... (We should also welcome all the refugees we can get, of course.)
  - EdSharkey 9y ago
    Nah. You're just making emotional arguments because not all risk-taking immigrants are entrepreneurs. We're not running a charity, why would you talk as if we are? > (We should also welcome all the refugees we can get, of course.) What trolling nonsense. We must control who comes and who gets turned away, it's the only fair and equitable option for the citizens and resident aliens who already live here. Because priorities.
- dilyevsky 9y ago
  Applying for existing h1b transfer is already fairly trivial (or at least it was before Trump) if your company has a lawyer firm on retainer. Most h1bs I know switched jobs at least once.
  - EdSharkey 9y ago
    All of the h1b's I've known that transferred just switched from one slaver to the next. I'm talking about being part of the job market and being able to switch, perhaps within fixed time windows, but for the most part, at one's own will. You know, having freedom? Of course, that will never happen, because the point of the system is to get people here, have a sword of deportation hanging over their heads, and thus keep 'em quiet and get 'em cheap.
davidw 9y ago
Hey, I worked really hard to be born where I was ;-)
friedButter 9y ago
I feel the real issue is that Americans are comfy with their quality of life, and spend a lot of money on luxury educationm ending up with loans. People in India for instance are used to a massively lower level of material comforts during education. As a result education is much cheaper (so we dont graduate with massive debts in India) and we are used to a lower quality of live (so 2 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment is still an upgrade). Americans will end up losing on money in such a system, cause they will want to maintain their quality of life, say living in independent studios with central climate control even in high CoL areas, and they need to pay back education loans which are much lower for people from India
happyrock 9y ago
What exactly is the point of a having a country at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its citizens? And I assume you have a problem with all other countries unfairly "opportunity hoarding" for their own people too, not just the US?
- damnyou 9y ago
  > What exactly is the point of a having a country at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its citizens? "What exactly is the point of having the white race at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its members?" Countries should effectively be large organizations competing for people based on tax rates, laws, efficiency, and productivity. > And I assume you have a problem with all other countries unfairly "opportunity hoarding" for their own people too, not just the US? Obviously. But this is not a Nash equilibrium. Even unilaterally opening up your borders will result in better Pareto outcomes.
dilyevsky 9y ago
> The latent nativism among the Hacker News crowd is laid bare. +1. that and sheer ignorance mixed with some American-grade entitlement. being anti-h1b is just socially acceptable (among 'liberals') way of being xenophobic.
rpowers 9y ago
Your proposal is a feel-good hurrah, but oversimplifies a few complex issues. No protections = Exploitation of workers. Instant green card = Increased competition for Housing/public services. So unless you think that lowly-paid immigrants with limited access to social services is the best path forward, I'd advocate for some protections. I agree with no limits. If a company can provide for the workers, then go for it. Otherwise, the US barely has enough financial support/ safety net for the existing population. Opening the doors wide open would put stress on that already poor situation.
- damnyou 9y ago
  > No protections = Exploitation of workers. I said no protectionism (in the form of visa caps), not no protections. > Instant green card = Increased competition for Housing/public services. Sounds like a great opportunity for entrepreneurs to provide those services and make lots of money. I wonder why the otherwise enterprising Hacker News crowd is blind to the incredible market opportunities open borders would provide. I truly, deeply wonder why.
  - SolaceQuantum 9y ago
    > Sounds like a great opportunity for entrepreneurs to provide those services and make lots of money. I believe these were called slums and the entrepreneurs slumlords.
    - damnyou 9y ago
      Thankfully, with the power of legislation (TM) we can ensure that new buildings are up to modern standards.
  - rpowers 9y ago
    You said 'No $100k minimum wage' which IS a protection in favor of the immigrants.

EdSharkey 9y ago

I just don't like to see people made into indentured servants. Here's my radical proposal: let H1B's change jobs once a year, as long as they're employed somewhere in the industry they're here for and their visa hasn't expired, they can stay. "Sponsoring" companies should not be allowed to keep slaves. I don't think your radical proposal makes much sense. What's the benefit to a country to basically throw its borders wide open?

damnyou 9y ago
> What's the benefit to a country to basically throw its borders wide open? More people means a bigger economy. Immigrants -- at least the ones that choose to immigrate -- are by definition risk-takers. Risk-taking is core to entrepreneurship. I hope I don't have to defend the value of entrepreneurship on this site. We've known for thousands of years that free trade is a net positive for everyone involved. Why would free immigration be any different? The US had open borders for centuries. It became the most powerful country in the world because of open borders. Here's an economist far more literate than me making the case: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number-of-immigrants.html http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number... (We should also welcome all the refugees we can get, of course.)
- EdSharkey 9y ago
  Nah. You're just making emotional arguments because not all risk-taking immigrants are entrepreneurs. We're not running a charity, why would you talk as if we are? > (We should also welcome all the refugees we can get, of course.) What trolling nonsense. We must control who comes and who gets turned away, it's the only fair and equitable option for the citizens and resident aliens who already live here. Because priorities.
dilyevsky 9y ago
Applying for existing h1b transfer is already fairly trivial (or at least it was before Trump) if your company has a lawyer firm on retainer. Most h1bs I know switched jobs at least once.
- EdSharkey 9y ago
  All of the h1b's I've known that transferred just switched from one slaver to the next. I'm talking about being part of the job market and being able to switch, perhaps within fixed time windows, but for the most part, at one's own will. You know, having freedom? Of course, that will never happen, because the point of the system is to get people here, have a sword of deportation hanging over their heads, and thus keep 'em quiet and get 'em cheap.

davidw 9y ago

Hey, I worked really hard to be born where I was ;-)

friedButter 9y ago

I feel the real issue is that Americans are comfy with their quality of life, and spend a lot of money on luxury educationm ending up with loans. People in India for instance are used to a massively lower level of material comforts during education. As a result education is much cheaper (so we dont graduate with massive debts in India) and we are used to a lower quality of live (so 2 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment is still an upgrade). Americans will end up losing on money in such a system, cause they will want to maintain their quality of life, say living in independent studios with central climate control even in high CoL areas, and they need to pay back education loans which are much lower for people from India

happyrock 9y ago

What exactly is the point of a having a country at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its citizens? And I assume you have a problem with all other countries unfairly "opportunity hoarding" for their own people too, not just the US?

damnyou 9y ago
> What exactly is the point of a having a country at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its citizens? "What exactly is the point of having the white race at all, if not to accrue unfair advantages to its members?" Countries should effectively be large organizations competing for people based on tax rates, laws, efficiency, and productivity. > And I assume you have a problem with all other countries unfairly "opportunity hoarding" for their own people too, not just the US? Obviously. But this is not a Nash equilibrium. Even unilaterally opening up your borders will result in better Pareto outcomes.

dilyevsky 9y ago

> The latent nativism among the Hacker News crowd is laid bare. +1. that and sheer ignorance mixed with some American-grade entitlement. being anti-h1b is just socially acceptable (among 'liberals') way of being xenophobic.

rpowers 9y ago

Your proposal is a feel-good hurrah, but oversimplifies a few complex issues. No protections = Exploitation of workers. Instant green card = Increased competition for Housing/public services. So unless you think that lowly-paid immigrants with limited access to social services is the best path forward, I'd advocate for some protections. I agree with no limits. If a company can provide for the workers, then go for it. Otherwise, the US barely has enough financial support/ safety net for the existing population. Opening the doors wide open would put stress on that already poor situation.

damnyou 9y ago
> No protections = Exploitation of workers. I said no protectionism (in the form of visa caps), not no protections. > Instant green card = Increased competition for Housing/public services. Sounds like a great opportunity for entrepreneurs to provide those services and make lots of money. I wonder why the otherwise enterprising Hacker News crowd is blind to the incredible market opportunities open borders would provide. I truly, deeply wonder why.
- SolaceQuantum 9y ago
  > Sounds like a great opportunity for entrepreneurs to provide those services and make lots of money. I believe these were called slums and the entrepreneurs slumlords.
  - damnyou 9y ago
    Thankfully, with the power of legislation (TM) we can ensure that new buildings are up to modern standards.
- rpowers 9y ago
  You said 'No $100k minimum wage' which IS a protection in favor of the immigrants.