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Religion for techies. Apocolyptic millenarian beliefs (Singularity)? Check. Transcendence and life after death? Check. Belief in purity and rituals (Vitamins an

Religion for techies. Apocolyptic millenarian beliefs (Singularity)? Check. Transcendence and life after death? Check. Belief in purity and rituals (Vitamins and workout routines)? Check. Hold a service at the TED Talk, etc. . . . It might not be the same literal thing as a religion but transhumanist culture sure seems to be serving the same basic human needs.

tim333 9y ago
Yeah but that's like saying antibiotics are casting out ill health demons for techies. Some similarities but important differences also.
_jal 9y ago
Yep. Kurzweil has been banging this drum for a long time. I read Spiritual Machines a long time ago and found it to be a simple rehash of 90s-Extropian tropes - utility fog, uploads, all the goodies needed to glue science-fiction nerdbait to a thin rehash of Christian rebirth millenarianism. The book went away in one of my periodic purges, or I'd check to see if he changed his dates.
- tim333 9y ago
  You can check most of the predictions / dates on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil#The_Age_of_Spiritual_Machines_.281999.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzwe... 2009 "Artificial voices sound fully human" seems a bit optimistic. as does 2019 "Household robots are ubiquitous and reliable."
  - r3bl 9y ago
    Well, sure, but... 2009 "Though desktop PCs are still common for data storage, individuals primarily use portable devices for their computer-related tasks." sounds pretty realistic now. So does 2019 "People experience 3-D virtual reality through glasses and contact lenses that beam images directly to their retinas (retinal display). Coupled with an auditory source (headphones), users can remotely communicate with other people and access the Internet." with the current progress of AR and VR (although it might be a few years late). My point is, you've nitpicked this in a series of predictions which may or may not be true. Kurzweil's betting a lot on 2045 and AGI, and hoping that 2029 will help him reach that age. The rest is a mix of possibly true predictions that seem absurd, like the two I've pointed out.
    - tim333 9y ago
      Yeah I picked a couple of ones that didn't seem quite there. For me the most interesting prediction has been 2029 for the Turing test which he's been saying since 2000 or so. The hardware seems pretty much on track. It will be interesting to see if the software gets sorted in the next 12 years or not.
    - petraeus 9y ago
      Though desktop PCs are still common for data storage, individuals primarily use portable devices for their computer-related tasks .. is patently fals, we are nowhere close to "using" our handheld devices for the majority of computer related tasks. Portable devices are in most cases used to consume media.
      - oxide 9y ago
        Unless you do not have a PC. A decent phone IS the PC in some homes.
forthefuture 9y ago
I'd only add that it's another way to manufacture hope for people who have been left behind by how unbelievable most religions are. I've been trying for years (and will continue trying) to switch my parents hope for an afterlife with a hope that cryo will work. There is definitely no afterlife, but cryo might eventually work. That's how I see most of these "living forever" positions. It's just a more intellectual hope to have, where you at least break reality into possible and impossible before choosing something to believe.
- OneWordSoln 9y ago
  "There is definitely no afterlife" Only a moron would state such categorically. Certainly, there is no proof, but to state you know something such as this is absolutely improvable. You. Don't. KNOW. Shit. You also aren't willing to admit what you don't know, which is the essence of humble intelligence.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  >There is definitely no afterlife For the sake of argument, how do you definitely know this?
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msamwald 9y ago
Which is not a bad thing. Religion developed to cope with the unavoidable misery of human existence through a coordinated belief in an imaginary afterlife free of that misery. Enlightenment, science and technology showed us that most of this misery could be alleviated by advancing our technologies and social structures, while also revealing the imaginary nature of ideas of an afterlife. The tragic thing is that we might live in the worst time of all: religion is obsolete, yet the transformative changes possible through technology might very well stay out of reach during our lifetimes.
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- Balgair 9y ago
  > Religion developed to cope with the unavoidable misery of human existence through a coordinated belief in an imaginary afterlife free of that misery. Maybe. Gobekli Tepe is turning out to be very surprising, and it's only 10% uncovered. There may be even more paradigm shifting things in that rubble. I'd treat your thesis as theory for now and wait to see what we'll dig up. Not saying you are wrong at all, but big things are afoot in religo-paleontology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe
  - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
    What about Gobekli Tepe indicates otherwise? It is supposed that it was constructed by hunter-gatherers, which typically worshipped the animals they hunted as idols. Such animals have been found engraved into the ruins.
    - Balgair 9y ago
      My reply was to say that such strong statements about humans and religion are perhaps unwise at this time, considering we may be going through a paradigm shift in our understanding at this time. The statement is not wrong, per se, but caution is advised.

tim333 9y ago

Yeah but that's like saying antibiotics are casting out ill health demons for techies. Some similarities but important differences also.

_jal 9y ago

Yep. Kurzweil has been banging this drum for a long time. I read Spiritual Machines a long time ago and found it to be a simple rehash of 90s-Extropian tropes - utility fog, uploads, all the goodies needed to glue science-fiction nerdbait to a thin rehash of Christian rebirth millenarianism. The book went away in one of my periodic purges, or I'd check to see if he changed his dates.

tim333 9y ago
You can check most of the predictions / dates on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil#The_Age_of_Spiritual_Machines_.281999.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzwe... 2009 "Artificial voices sound fully human" seems a bit optimistic. as does 2019 "Household robots are ubiquitous and reliable."
- r3bl 9y ago
  Well, sure, but... 2009 "Though desktop PCs are still common for data storage, individuals primarily use portable devices for their computer-related tasks." sounds pretty realistic now. So does 2019 "People experience 3-D virtual reality through glasses and contact lenses that beam images directly to their retinas (retinal display). Coupled with an auditory source (headphones), users can remotely communicate with other people and access the Internet." with the current progress of AR and VR (although it might be a few years late). My point is, you've nitpicked this in a series of predictions which may or may not be true. Kurzweil's betting a lot on 2045 and AGI, and hoping that 2029 will help him reach that age. The rest is a mix of possibly true predictions that seem absurd, like the two I've pointed out.
  - tim333 9y ago
    Yeah I picked a couple of ones that didn't seem quite there. For me the most interesting prediction has been 2029 for the Turing test which he's been saying since 2000 or so. The hardware seems pretty much on track. It will be interesting to see if the software gets sorted in the next 12 years or not.
  - petraeus 9y ago
    Though desktop PCs are still common for data storage, individuals primarily use portable devices for their computer-related tasks .. is patently fals, we are nowhere close to "using" our handheld devices for the majority of computer related tasks. Portable devices are in most cases used to consume media.
    - oxide 9y ago
      Unless you do not have a PC. A decent phone IS the PC in some homes.

forthefuture 9y ago

I'd only add that it's another way to manufacture hope for people who have been left behind by how unbelievable most religions are. I've been trying for years (and will continue trying) to switch my parents hope for an afterlife with a hope that cryo will work. There is definitely no afterlife, but cryo might eventually work. That's how I see most of these "living forever" positions. It's just a more intellectual hope to have, where you at least break reality into possible and impossible before choosing something to believe.

OneWordSoln 9y ago
"There is definitely no afterlife" Only a moron would state such categorically. Certainly, there is no proof, but to state you know something such as this is absolutely improvable. You. Don't. KNOW. Shit. You also aren't willing to admit what you don't know, which is the essence of humble intelligence.
wu-ikkyu 9y ago
>There is definitely no afterlife For the sake of argument, how do you definitely know this?
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msamwald 9y ago

Which is not a bad thing. Religion developed to cope with the unavoidable misery of human existence through a coordinated belief in an imaginary afterlife free of that misery. Enlightenment, science and technology showed us that most of this misery could be alleviated by advancing our technologies and social structures, while also revealing the imaginary nature of ideas of an afterlife. The tragic thing is that we might live in the worst time of all: religion is obsolete, yet the transformative changes possible through technology might very well stay out of reach during our lifetimes.

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Balgair 9y ago
> Religion developed to cope with the unavoidable misery of human existence through a coordinated belief in an imaginary afterlife free of that misery. Maybe. Gobekli Tepe is turning out to be very surprising, and it's only 10% uncovered. There may be even more paradigm shifting things in that rubble. I'd treat your thesis as theory for now and wait to see what we'll dig up. Not saying you are wrong at all, but big things are afoot in religo-paleontology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  What about Gobekli Tepe indicates otherwise? It is supposed that it was constructed by hunter-gatherers, which typically worshipped the animals they hunted as idols. Such animals have been found engraved into the ruins.
  - Balgair 9y ago
    My reply was to say that such strong statements about humans and religion are perhaps unwise at this time, considering we may be going through a paradigm shift in our understanding at this time. The statement is not wrong, per se, but caution is advised.