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In Seattle my friend and I used to always give these two homeless guys our change from the supermarket. Once my buddy asked them, instead, what they needed fro

In Seattle my friend and I used to always give these two homeless guys our change from the supermarket. Once my buddy asked them, instead, what they needed from inside. The guy asked for a drink, and he bought them a drink: "Man, are you kidding me? I asked you for a drink. And you went and got me this ! I don't want that . I want a drink." Some woman in the parking lot saw us and explained to us that they often sleep at a nearby shelter, and that they have access to meals every day. I guess we thought we were really helping them, but realized we weren't really doing much more than encouraging their behavior. I wish there were code camps for homeless. Or xyz_marketable_skill camps for the homeless. I know these wouldn't help everyone, but I would feel a lot more sure about the marginal benefit they provide. I know it is sad. But there is a lot of value in an approach which provides opportunity. Up on Cap Hill, there used to be this homeless guy that would walk up and down the street, picking up all the garbage on the sidewalks and the gutters. I offered to buy him lunch and he refused--he said he didn't want to be any trouble and could get meals. I told him I'd buy him whatever he wanted from the undercover-Starbucks that is up there, and he agreed. I always remember that guy's eyes and smile when he sat down and drank that coffee. I sometimes I wanted to cry for him. I wish there was a better way for him; he deserved it.

Chris2048 9y ago
> I wish there were code camps for homeless I think it is patronising, not charitable, to treat homeless people as "just like you, but unlucky/lacking opportunity". It downplays the serious problems that put them there, by casting them as under-performing versions of yourself.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Are you sure patronizing is the right word here? Treating someone as you would yourself betrays the definition of patronizing.. So I'm not sure what you mean by that? It however does seem patronizing to assert, as you say, that they are not people just like you but who 'have serious problems that put them there.' The argument has been made that a majority of people in their life will experience an episode of what can be called mental illness. Why does America have higher instance of homelessness than other countries? It cannot only be that we necessarily are genetically have greater predisposition to mental illness. Some people suffer more than others, and for those that are truly disabled, I would hope that our society will truly care for them, but everyone should first be given opportunities.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    > It however does seem patronizing to assert, as you say, that they are not people just like you Depends what you mean. If you mean "they are not people" I don't assert this at all. If you mean "they are people who are not like you" I did assert this. How is that patronising, especially given that they are homeless, and you are not - It is attributing the difference to small, surmountable differences that find partonising. Consider whether you also find "white man's burden" problematic. Treating other people like inferior versions of yourself doesn't help them. > a majority of people in their life will experience an episode of what can be called mental illness That's a very general statement. I can just as well claim that a majority of people in their life will experience an episode of what can be called "problems". But are the types of mental illness that many american experience, the same as those affecting homeless people? > Why does America have higher instance of homelessness than other countries Which countries? looking here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_... It says American homelessness is 0.18%, compared to 0.38% for the UK and 0.42% to Germany.
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      I don't really agree with you about all of this. Everyone has their own journey, but we are not so different. We are all just people. I think your view is actually closer to patronizing--well, by definition it takes a view that, while being nice to them, that these people are less equal, which is exactly what patronizing is. But you are right about that homeless statistic for Americans. I personally can't even believe it is right given what I have seen with my own eyes--and I've been to those countries, and volunteered at homeless shelters in America.

Chris2048 9y ago

> I wish there were code camps for homeless I think it is patronising, not charitable, to treat homeless people as "just like you, but unlucky/lacking opportunity". It downplays the serious problems that put them there, by casting them as under-performing versions of yourself.

wallace_f 9y ago
Are you sure patronizing is the right word here? Treating someone as you would yourself betrays the definition of patronizing.. So I'm not sure what you mean by that? It however does seem patronizing to assert, as you say, that they are not people just like you but who 'have serious problems that put them there.' The argument has been made that a majority of people in their life will experience an episode of what can be called mental illness. Why does America have higher instance of homelessness than other countries? It cannot only be that we necessarily are genetically have greater predisposition to mental illness. Some people suffer more than others, and for those that are truly disabled, I would hope that our society will truly care for them, but everyone should first be given opportunities.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > It however does seem patronizing to assert, as you say, that they are not people just like you Depends what you mean. If you mean "they are not people" I don't assert this at all. If you mean "they are people who are not like you" I did assert this. How is that patronising, especially given that they are homeless, and you are not - It is attributing the difference to small, surmountable differences that find partonising. Consider whether you also find "white man's burden" problematic. Treating other people like inferior versions of yourself doesn't help them. > a majority of people in their life will experience an episode of what can be called mental illness That's a very general statement. I can just as well claim that a majority of people in their life will experience an episode of what can be called "problems". But are the types of mental illness that many american experience, the same as those affecting homeless people? > Why does America have higher instance of homelessness than other countries Which countries? looking here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_... It says American homelessness is 0.18%, compared to 0.38% for the UK and 0.42% to Germany.
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    I don't really agree with you about all of this. Everyone has their own journey, but we are not so different. We are all just people. I think your view is actually closer to patronizing--well, by definition it takes a view that, while being nice to them, that these people are less equal, which is exactly what patronizing is. But you are right about that homeless statistic for Americans. I personally can't even believe it is right given what I have seen with my own eyes--and I've been to those countries, and volunteered at homeless shelters in America.