10 ms·

Growing homeless camps contrast with West Coast tech wealth

99 points by SQL2219 9y ago

SQL2219 9y ago
The median selling price of a single-family house in San Francisco spiked by $113,000 from the crazy spike and peak in May, to a new record of – fasten your seat belt – $1.588 million https://wolfstreet.com/2017/11/06/san-francisco-house-price-bubble-condos-price-bubble/ https://wolfstreet.com/2017/11/06/san-francisco-house-price-...
- lsv1 9y ago
  I don't need to fasten my seat belt, this makes perfect sense. The supply and demand of homes drives the prices, as well as some other factors, and this is simply what people who are paid a lot of money are willing to pay.
  - charlesdm 9y ago
    There is a clear issue if even well paid professionals (e.g. people on $150 to 300k a year) are having issues purchasing properties.
    - wyager 9y ago
      Then paid professionals should stop moving there, and home prices will equilibrate.
      - userpass 9y ago
        And employers should stop asking professionals to move there.
      - ido 9y ago
        Alternatively, increase supply.
      - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        When good jobs of a certain industry are concentrated to such a small area of the country, "stop moving there" really isn't much of an option. We need to find a way to spread the jobs out a bit, because it should be obvious that the companies employing those professionals have no incentive to do so without outside intervention.
        ghaff 9y ago
        They're really not that concentrated. The idea that, if you're in a tech-related field, your life is effectively over if you don't move to the Bay area is complete nonsense.
  - crdoconnor 9y ago
    It's driven more by people who own for a living that people who work for a living. Given the extreme level of wealth inequality, no, it's not surprising though.
hcurtiss 9y ago
With apologies for the aside, pages like that are why people turn to ad blockers. Wow.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  SF Gate is pretty bad. The Chronicle site (sfchronicle.com) tends to be slightly better, though it doesn't seem to have this story. Outline.com helps tremendously. https://outline.com/eU7fsq https://outline.com/eU7fsq Actually, since this is an AP story, they should have the source as well. This is part of a series: https://apnews.com/tag/HomelessCrisis https://apnews.com/tag/HomelessCrisis Here's the AP source: https://apnews.com/d480434bbacd4b028ff13cd1e7cea155/Homelessness-soars-on-West-Coast-as-cities-struggle-to-cope https://apnews.com/d480434bbacd4b028ff13cd1e7cea155/Homeless...
uoaei 9y ago
To anyone thinking "I can't do anything, it's gotta be legislated to make any lasting changes" I just want to say Yes! you can do something: get involved with your local community and put your time to a morally good use by changing those regulations. Get laws passed that make the situation better for everyone. Any improvement is better than bickering, stand in solidarity and push everything that can help. http://hrcsf.org/ http://hrcsf.org/ https://www.sftu.org/ https://www.sftu.org/ http://www.bapd.org/csaaco-1.html http://www.bapd.org/csaaco-1.html
brndnmtthws 9y ago
For anyone wondering what they can do to help homeless people, a first step (that costs you nothing) is to simply treat them like normal people. If they speak to you, reply like you would any other person. If they ask you for money, respond to them politely. Don't simply ignore them as if they don't exist. Don't be afraid to smile and make eye contact. Just be nice, and remember that they're people too. There isn't much, other than luck and some privilege, which separates most of us elites from someone who finds themselves living on the street.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > There isn't much, other than luck and some privilege, which separates most of us elites from someone who finds themselves living on the street. It's not entirely random. This might be a good reminder to get good disability insurance, life insurance, and a living will to protect your family if something big happens like a car accident or the development of a mental health disorder.
  - taneq 9y ago
    Maybe a nice society-wide way to do this would be to have a government-supported healthcare system which doesn't beggar people for an MRI or some simple meds.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    Not genetics then? The high number of homeless with mental disorders is entirely environmental? Or do you tautologically include that as "luck" and/or "privilege"?
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      I was encouraging everyone to protect their loved ones in any case. There are some things we can be proactive about. Whether someone has a life insurance policy and a will specifying custody for their kids isn't luck. Whether (at least white collar) people have long-term disability insurance isn't luck either.
  - 9y ago
token_throwaway 9y ago
I lived in SF for many years and fully absorbed the culture, and wow, getting out was a huge wake-up call. The bubble is extreme. Outside, streets colored by actual human shit, people living in extreme poverty, other people walking over sleeping bags to get to work. Inside, someone tweet-storming about how the guy on BART was manspreading and how this is a direct threat to our wellness as a society. Rough
- mathattack 9y ago
  The first time I saw human feces on the sidewalk surprised me. It's like the city is turning into Manhattan, but with a crazy mental illness problem on the streets.
  - conbandit 9y ago
    Manhattan isn't what it was 40 years ago. It's a lot cleaner now.
    - mathattack 9y ago
      Yes. Perhaps this is what SF has to go through? I'm generally not a fan of trickle-down economics, but does the city have to go through such a long stretch of prosperity for there to be enough wealth to pay for everyone? If so, advocates for UBI may need to wait a while. Is SF unique in such a large % of the population being mentally ill or addicts?
      - ihsw2 9y ago
        Well the weather is absolutely phenomenal, so it definitely has a leg up on NYC there. It's just spit-balling, but there's also a thriving drug culture and ideologically-driven tolerance for all manner of person.
      - token_throwaway 9y ago
        The city already spends a ton of money on the issue - clearly the government just isn't great at putting that cash to use. So I don't think throwing more money at the problem will help. Truthfully the answers to the problem may make the situation worse before it gets better. You should look up an article by Nick Buckley, who runs an outreach service for homeless people in Manchester UK. It's obviously a different situation than SF but it piqued my interest because it's an angle you really never hear.
jhoechtl 9y ago
But to no surprise given the fact that the created west cost wealth is not re-distributed but marginalized at the top. The internet economy favorites monopolies.
dbcooper 9y ago
DS9's Bell riots are only a few years away.
moduspol 9y ago
Clearly they need to get their rich guys to start paying their fair share.
- ameister14 9y ago
  San Francisco spends about $35,000 per homeless person in an attempt to deal with the problem.
  - ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
    Any source for this? That sounds high, it would be enough to pay the rent for a year for each one.
    - ameister14 9y ago
      Sure, http://www.sfchronicle.com/aboutsfgate/article/Despite-money-and-work-homelessness-in-SF-as-bad-11242946.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/aboutsfgate/article/Despite-money... http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/ http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/
    - megaman22 9y ago
      Or move them somewhere less expensive and give them a solidly lower-middle class lifestyle.
      - vinceguidry 9y ago
        The "bus ticket out of town" idea's been tried over and over. Are you saying SF city money should go directly to other area's rent markets?
        TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        > Are you saying SF city money should go directly to other area's rent markets? If SF isn't able to handle the issue themselves, then why shouldn't they use their money to help them? Should it only be the poorer areas of the country that handle the issues that the rich areas cause?
blunte 9y ago
With the growing inequality gap, the US is headed toward its own destruction. Everyone hates taxes, but when those taxes are used reasonably efficiently to make life generally better for most of the population, it's a net gain. What is the value of being King of the Ghetto? At what point is enough excess enough? At that point, the rest should go back into the community. I now live in a country on the higher end of the taxation rankings. While I don't enjoy giving up 40% of my income, I do enjoy a lot of benefits (good public transport being the most useful perk for me) that I simply didn't have in the US. However, I am not going to blame the US entirely for its rising rent problem. Yes a lot of it has been due to the excessive pay of dot.com and other Wall Street windfalls (since when people can afford something they want, they ultimately don't care what the price is... which drives prices up rapidly). However, another major factor is the enormous influx of foreign property purchases. Chinese nationals now own a huge percentage of the properties in the city center. Rental rates are going up at an incredible clip. Unfortunately, rent controls are only a little successful (because people take advantage of that system, just like people do many things to avoid paying taxes). I really don't see any solution for now. Even providing a living income to all members of society won't prevent some regions having rental rates well beyond what "normal" people can afford. However, try to imagine SF or Manhattan with no low-wage workers. There would be no restaurants, no road repair crews, no public transport drivers, etc. etc. Who would pick up your trash?
- a3n 9y ago
  > imagine SF or Manhattan with no low-wage workers. There would be no restaurants, no road repair crews, no public transport drivers, etc. etc. Who would pick up your trash? Rather than subsidizing rich lives with low paid waiters, or somehow taking low-wage workers out of the mix, imagine paying those functions a locally livable wage. Yes, there would be fewer of them, and probably fewer and more expensive restaurants. But low wage exploitation is not the only way. Or, if you don't like seeing human tragedy on the streets, you could leave the area. That would tend to depress rent costs, and other costs would follow.
  - vinceguidry 9y ago
    I don't see why you gloss over the "there would be fewer of them" problem with your reasoning. How is this line of thought supposed to move the needle on homelessness in SF? You're expecting them to just go away because they can't find jobs?
ameister14 9y ago
Money isn't the problem nor the complete solution to this particular problem. San Francisco spent a quarter billion dollars to combat homelessness last year, 70 million more than the year before, and it clearly hasn't improved.
- megaman22 9y ago
  Well, you get what you pay for. That might well be part of the problem.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  Not everyone is intelligent enough to be a coding hacking ninja. Every area needs a lower, middle, and upper class. When the lower class of an area isn't given enough to survive, this is what happens.
- eli_gottlieb 9y ago
  How can the city be spending a half a billion over two years and not have more fucking buildings?
- tomjen3 9y ago
  Or they could be using the money ineffectively. Knowing what I know about social services (although limited to Denmark) they are amazing at pissing away money on studies that they then don't use and classifying people into groups, rather than looking into what individual needs (which may be psych help or a kick in the butt). To be clear, this is a systemic issue, most of the front people do actually want to help.
cmsefton 9y ago
In the UK, there's a yearly fund raising drive called Byte Night https://www.bytenight.org.uk/ https://www.bytenight.org.uk/ that is targeted primarily at the tech industry. People help raise funds by sleeping rough for a night in a park at various cities. The money goes to Action for Children, who aim to tackle the root causes of homelessness by trying to help prevent vulnerable young people from becoming homeless in the first place. I did my first one this year, and will look at doing it again next year. While the night is nothing compared to what people really face (we at least can have a sleeping bag, get a decent meal beforehand, and you're relatively safe during the night), it's a great cause, and really changes your perspective on how people become homeless, and what they face.
donohoe 9y ago
Unrelated: anyone notice how fast the page loaded?
throw2016 9y ago
If tech geniuses with massive resources and brain power can't solve basic problems at their door step its far reach to claim to solve world problems. Of course its posturing but a lesson for those who drink the koolaid. There is no point being wealthy if most around you are suffering and and in desperate conditions. This can't make anyone happy, except sociopaths. You have to care for other people and society beyond just your immediate interest and benefit. Unlike what Thatcher said you need a society for basic civilized life. This is where self centric individualism falls apart. Trillions of dollars are being squandered on wars and bailouts to benefit entrenched interests, all these 'individual achievers' worshiped by the neoliberal ideology. This is not how a democracy works.
- ryguytilidie 9y ago
  "If tech geniuses with massive resources and brain power can't solve basic problems at their door step its far reach to claim to solve world problems. Of course its posturing but a lesson for those who drink the koolaid." I get that the goal nowadays is to be a snarky jerk to everyone around you but this is just extremely bizarre. So lets say some kid from Missouri gets a job working at Pinterest. He or she work 50-60 hours a week and then try to have a life. This seems pretty normal, except to throw2016, who is angry at this supposed "genius" not solving San Francisco's homeless problem. Also this burden is only on tech people, not on anyone in finance or any other industry in SF. Got it.
- rootlocus 9y ago
  > If tech geniuses with massive resources and brain power can't solve basic problems at their door step its far reach to claim to solve world problems There's some talent, sure, but I wouldn't call every software developer in SF "tech genius"...
- tomjen3 9y ago
  There is more point to being wealthy if being poor is a likely reality: the wealthier you are, the more insulated you are as well. And you don't have to be a sociopath either - humans are pretty good at looking away (how often do you look at pictures of starving people?) Also you assume that a person who is good at solving one class of problems is also good at solving other classes of problems. This is not so. Anyway there are solutions that are not hard, but they mostly involve putting these people under guardianship and getting them of the streets, then into assisted living for those with mental issues and some for of work program for those who are just on drugs. The once whoes only issue is that they don't have place to stay need help too, but they are typically not the one you see on the street, because they are sane enough to sleep in cars, behave normally during the day, have a place to shower at a gym or similar, etc. I doubt enough housing could be constructed to help them, as it seems the more housing there is, the more people come there in search of better oppertunities - a potential solution (although diabolical) would be to raise the minimum wage enough that there aren't jobs for the people who can't afford to live there (less diabolically minded people would point out that it would make it more attractive to have a longer commute and that some of the people who are able to maintain their jobs would now be able to afford housing).
dredmorbius 9y ago
Those prefering not to have a massive autoplaying hero animation can add the following host to their dnamasq, pi-hole, or /etc/hosts blocklist(s): cdn.jwplayer.com
codeisawesome 9y ago
Absolutely hate to say this, but will the USA's first "Dharavi" form in SF? I was hoping for the reverse direction instead, and things getting better for "everyone else" instead :(
asadlionpk 9y ago
This was how I summarized SF to my friends: Billionaires inside the building, disrupting the world. Homeless sleeping just outside in the cold.
neom 9y ago
I've talked to a few SF natives about this, and the consensus seems to be: people who came from other(/nicer) towns and went to good schools moved here for the software revolution and gave no shits about our city or it's problems. I'm sure everyone remembers the Justin Keller blog post.
- sebtoast 9y ago
  I couldn't find the blog post itself but I found a Guardian article on it https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/17/san-francisco-tech-open-letter-i-dont-want-to-see-homeless-riff-raff https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/17/san-franc...
- rootlocus 9y ago
  > I'm sure everyone remembers the Justin Keller blog post. Never heard of it. Is it https://justink.svbtle.com/open-letter-to-mayor-ed-lee-and-greg-suhr-police-chief https://justink.svbtle.com/open-letter-to-mayor-ed-lee-and-g... ?
klingkyle04 9y ago
San Francisco has too many problems which is why I moved to NY: Dangerous & Dirty: I have been verbally and physically abused walking in San Francisco. My wife can't walk around by herself because of such problems. My friends were physically assaulted while biking. Each week I'd walk to work and someone would be screaming obscene language at others. I've sat in coffee shops where someone would walk in and grab my food, destroy the public restroom or have to be kicked out by cops. Streets are littered with people, garbage, human waste and more. My family refuses to visit after what they saw the first time. Theft: I have had my car broken into several times mid day in very public places. My bike lock clipped and bike stolen on Market street mid day. I have people break into my elder's home even in San Jose and steal many items. Nudity: I understand this is an 'open city' but I've seen men expose themselves while walking by the park of children at Dolores. I've seen a tremendous amount of nude people walking around different streets of the city exposing themselves to tourists, kids, strangers and more yearly. I've seen people publicly masturbate on public transportation and different parts of the city. Cost: The pricing for apartments are astronomical. The quality for most are horrendous. I've always had to share apartments with others. It's a problem for rich and poor. My relatives had to move out of the city because they'll never be able to afford a decent home in the bay area because they make a average american wage. I've had friends that are quant traders that refuse to bring their families to SF because it's too expensive - they fly back every weekend to their family because it's cheaper. My uncle sits on a duplex with no yard in south San Jose, that hasn't been touched for 30 years, has eroded greatly and it's somehow still worth more the $1M. Nothing will change anytime soon. People of all backgrounds are moving out of the bay area. Startups will move out of the city. Larger companies will move. I hope it gets better but I don't think it will. Which is why I left. Best of luck to those still there.
gadders 9y ago
https://www.city-journal.org/html/sidewalks-san-francisco-13321.html https://www.city-journal.org/html/sidewalks-san-francisco-13... "Finally, the homelessness advocates pulled out their trump card: associating supporters of the Civil Sidewalks law with “business interests.” San Francisco “progressives” regard businessmen as aliens within the body politic whose main function is to provide an inexhaustible well of funds to transfer to the city’s social-services empire. "
jimrandomh 9y ago
This is what happens when you use zoning to suppress residential construction across an entire state. All those people have to end up somewhere, and if you don't allow enough apartments to be built then, well, they won't be living in apartments. The psychiatric and substance problems mostly appear afterwards.
jondubois 9y ago
I just don't understand how a city that has so many millionaires and billionaires can let this happen. Silicon valley has been shamelessly monopolising the media and presenting itself as a meritocracy in order to attract desperate people to work there... But the promise almost always falls short. VCs and executives of SV companies have been conspiring to attract as many people as possible to SV, filtering out all the 'bad ones' and then dumping them onto the streets like garbage. What's ironic is that the people who are causing the problem are often the ones who like to think of themselves as being morally irreproachable. I was surprised when I realized that a lot of people in SV believe that capitalism is some sort of moral code in itself; one in which profit is a quantifiable manifestation of societal improvement. To me, profit has always been about being in the right place at the right time and then finding some shady way to squeeze yourself between various counterparties. Middlemen are catalysts for the system; they speed things up in the short term but you end up with something of lower quality in the end.
- thatswrong0 9y ago
  Let this happen? You’re acting like it’s some easy problem to fix when it’s not. Many of the homeless here are suffering from mental illnesses.. what should a millionaire walking down the street do for them? What about drug addicts? Speaking from first hand experience, even people with the resources to deal with it struggle to properly help friends and family with drug addictions. The people of San Francisco pay a lot in taxes, and a lot of those tax dollars are used in an effort to curb homelessness, yet it feels like the problem is only getting worse, not better. How do we know our taxes are being used fruitfully? Should every millionaire go into the streets and inspect how homeless shelters and kitchens are being run? Do you expect every millionaire to make it their life’s work to address the issue? Do you expect them to give up their current interests and ambitions and try to setup new rehab clinics for all of the addicts and mental health clinics for those who aren’t well mentally? Because I really don’t understand what you’re asking of them.
vorotato 9y ago
bizzare that tech workers do this mecca thing when remote work exists. It's so strange.

99 points by SQL2219 9y ago

The median selling price of a single-family house in San Francisco spiked by $113,000 from the crazy spike and peak in May, to a new record of – fasten your seat belt – $1.588 million https://wolfstreet.com/2017/11/06/san-francisco-house-price-bubble-condos-price-bubble/ https://wolfstreet.com/2017/11/06/san-francisco-house-price-...

lsv1 9y ago
I don't need to fasten my seat belt, this makes perfect sense. The supply and demand of homes drives the prices, as well as some other factors, and this is simply what people who are paid a lot of money are willing to pay.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  There is a clear issue if even well paid professionals (e.g. people on $150 to 300k a year) are having issues purchasing properties.
  - wyager 9y ago
    Then paid professionals should stop moving there, and home prices will equilibrate.
    - userpass 9y ago
      And employers should stop asking professionals to move there.
    - ido 9y ago
      Alternatively, increase supply.
    - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
      When good jobs of a certain industry are concentrated to such a small area of the country, "stop moving there" really isn't much of an option. We need to find a way to spread the jobs out a bit, because it should be obvious that the companies employing those professionals have no incentive to do so without outside intervention.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        They're really not that concentrated. The idea that, if you're in a tech-related field, your life is effectively over if you don't move to the Bay area is complete nonsense.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  It's driven more by people who own for a living that people who work for a living. Given the extreme level of wealth inequality, no, it's not surprising though.

hcurtiss 9y ago

With apologies for the aside, pages like that are why people turn to ad blockers. Wow.

dredmorbius 9y ago
SF Gate is pretty bad. The Chronicle site (sfchronicle.com) tends to be slightly better, though it doesn't seem to have this story. Outline.com helps tremendously. https://outline.com/eU7fsq https://outline.com/eU7fsq Actually, since this is an AP story, they should have the source as well. This is part of a series: https://apnews.com/tag/HomelessCrisis https://apnews.com/tag/HomelessCrisis Here's the AP source: https://apnews.com/d480434bbacd4b028ff13cd1e7cea155/Homelessness-soars-on-West-Coast-as-cities-struggle-to-cope https://apnews.com/d480434bbacd4b028ff13cd1e7cea155/Homeless...

uoaei 9y ago

To anyone thinking "I can't do anything, it's gotta be legislated to make any lasting changes" I just want to say Yes! you can do something: get involved with your local community and put your time to a morally good use by changing those regulations. Get laws passed that make the situation better for everyone. Any improvement is better than bickering, stand in solidarity and push everything that can help. http://hrcsf.org/ http://hrcsf.org/ https://www.sftu.org/ https://www.sftu.org/ http://www.bapd.org/csaaco-1.html http://www.bapd.org/csaaco-1.html

brndnmtthws 9y ago

For anyone wondering what they can do to help homeless people, a first step (that costs you nothing) is to simply treat them like normal people. If they speak to you, reply like you would any other person. If they ask you for money, respond to them politely. Don't simply ignore them as if they don't exist. Don't be afraid to smile and make eye contact. Just be nice, and remember that they're people too. There isn't much, other than luck and some privilege, which separates most of us elites from someone who finds themselves living on the street.

humanrebar 9y ago
> There isn't much, other than luck and some privilege, which separates most of us elites from someone who finds themselves living on the street. It's not entirely random. This might be a good reminder to get good disability insurance, life insurance, and a living will to protect your family if something big happens like a car accident or the development of a mental health disorder.
- taneq 9y ago
  Maybe a nice society-wide way to do this would be to have a government-supported healthcare system which doesn't beggar people for an MRI or some simple meds.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  Not genetics then? The high number of homeless with mental disorders is entirely environmental? Or do you tautologically include that as "luck" and/or "privilege"?
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    I was encouraging everyone to protect their loved ones in any case. There are some things we can be proactive about. Whether someone has a life insurance policy and a will specifying custody for their kids isn't luck. Whether (at least white collar) people have long-term disability insurance isn't luck either.
- 9y ago

token_throwaway 9y ago

I lived in SF for many years and fully absorbed the culture, and wow, getting out was a huge wake-up call. The bubble is extreme. Outside, streets colored by actual human shit, people living in extreme poverty, other people walking over sleeping bags to get to work. Inside, someone tweet-storming about how the guy on BART was manspreading and how this is a direct threat to our wellness as a society. Rough

mathattack 9y ago
The first time I saw human feces on the sidewalk surprised me. It's like the city is turning into Manhattan, but with a crazy mental illness problem on the streets.
- conbandit 9y ago
  Manhattan isn't what it was 40 years ago. It's a lot cleaner now.
  - mathattack 9y ago
    Yes. Perhaps this is what SF has to go through? I'm generally not a fan of trickle-down economics, but does the city have to go through such a long stretch of prosperity for there to be enough wealth to pay for everyone? If so, advocates for UBI may need to wait a while. Is SF unique in such a large % of the population being mentally ill or addicts?
    - ihsw2 9y ago
      Well the weather is absolutely phenomenal, so it definitely has a leg up on NYC there. It's just spit-balling, but there's also a thriving drug culture and ideologically-driven tolerance for all manner of person.
    - token_throwaway 9y ago
      The city already spends a ton of money on the issue - clearly the government just isn't great at putting that cash to use. So I don't think throwing more money at the problem will help. Truthfully the answers to the problem may make the situation worse before it gets better. You should look up an article by Nick Buckley, who runs an outreach service for homeless people in Manchester UK. It's obviously a different situation than SF but it piqued my interest because it's an angle you really never hear.

jhoechtl 9y ago

But to no surprise given the fact that the created west cost wealth is not re-distributed but marginalized at the top. The internet economy favorites monopolies.

dbcooper 9y ago

DS9's Bell riots are only a few years away.

moduspol 9y ago

Clearly they need to get their rich guys to start paying their fair share.

ameister14 9y ago
San Francisco spends about $35,000 per homeless person in an attempt to deal with the problem.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
  Any source for this? That sounds high, it would be enough to pay the rent for a year for each one.
  - ameister14 9y ago
    Sure, http://www.sfchronicle.com/aboutsfgate/article/Despite-money-and-work-homelessness-in-SF-as-bad-11242946.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/aboutsfgate/article/Despite-money... http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/ http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/
  - megaman22 9y ago
    Or move them somewhere less expensive and give them a solidly lower-middle class lifestyle.
    - vinceguidry 9y ago
      The "bus ticket out of town" idea's been tried over and over. Are you saying SF city money should go directly to other area's rent markets?
      - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        > Are you saying SF city money should go directly to other area's rent markets? If SF isn't able to handle the issue themselves, then why shouldn't they use their money to help them? Should it only be the poorer areas of the country that handle the issues that the rich areas cause?

blunte 9y ago

With the growing inequality gap, the US is headed toward its own destruction. Everyone hates taxes, but when those taxes are used reasonably efficiently to make life generally better for most of the population, it's a net gain. What is the value of being King of the Ghetto? At what point is enough excess enough? At that point, the rest should go back into the community. I now live in a country on the higher end of the taxation rankings. While I don't enjoy giving up 40% of my income, I do enjoy a lot of benefits (good public transport being the most useful perk for me) that I simply didn't have in the US. However, I am not going to blame the US entirely for its rising rent problem. Yes a lot of it has been due to the excessive pay of dot.com and other Wall Street windfalls (since when people can afford something they want, they ultimately don't care what the price is... which drives prices up rapidly). However, another major factor is the enormous influx of foreign property purchases. Chinese nationals now own a huge percentage of the properties in the city center. Rental rates are going up at an incredible clip. Unfortunately, rent controls are only a little successful (because people take advantage of that system, just like people do many things to avoid paying taxes). I really don't see any solution for now. Even providing a living income to all members of society won't prevent some regions having rental rates well beyond what "normal" people can afford. However, try to imagine SF or Manhattan with no low-wage workers. There would be no restaurants, no road repair crews, no public transport drivers, etc. etc. Who would pick up your trash?

a3n 9y ago
> imagine SF or Manhattan with no low-wage workers. There would be no restaurants, no road repair crews, no public transport drivers, etc. etc. Who would pick up your trash? Rather than subsidizing rich lives with low paid waiters, or somehow taking low-wage workers out of the mix, imagine paying those functions a locally livable wage. Yes, there would be fewer of them, and probably fewer and more expensive restaurants. But low wage exploitation is not the only way. Or, if you don't like seeing human tragedy on the streets, you could leave the area. That would tend to depress rent costs, and other costs would follow.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  I don't see why you gloss over the "there would be fewer of them" problem with your reasoning. How is this line of thought supposed to move the needle on homelessness in SF? You're expecting them to just go away because they can't find jobs?

ameister14 9y ago

Money isn't the problem nor the complete solution to this particular problem. San Francisco spent a quarter billion dollars to combat homelessness last year, 70 million more than the year before, and it clearly hasn't improved.

megaman22 9y ago
Well, you get what you pay for. That might well be part of the problem.
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
Not everyone is intelligent enough to be a coding hacking ninja. Every area needs a lower, middle, and upper class. When the lower class of an area isn't given enough to survive, this is what happens.
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
How can the city be spending a half a billion over two years and not have more fucking buildings?
tomjen3 9y ago
Or they could be using the money ineffectively. Knowing what I know about social services (although limited to Denmark) they are amazing at pissing away money on studies that they then don't use and classifying people into groups, rather than looking into what individual needs (which may be psych help or a kick in the butt). To be clear, this is a systemic issue, most of the front people do actually want to help.

cmsefton 9y ago

In the UK, there's a yearly fund raising drive called Byte Night https://www.bytenight.org.uk/ https://www.bytenight.org.uk/ that is targeted primarily at the tech industry. People help raise funds by sleeping rough for a night in a park at various cities. The money goes to Action for Children, who aim to tackle the root causes of homelessness by trying to help prevent vulnerable young people from becoming homeless in the first place. I did my first one this year, and will look at doing it again next year. While the night is nothing compared to what people really face (we at least can have a sleeping bag, get a decent meal beforehand, and you're relatively safe during the night), it's a great cause, and really changes your perspective on how people become homeless, and what they face.

donohoe 9y ago

Unrelated: anyone notice how fast the page loaded?

throw2016 9y ago

If tech geniuses with massive resources and brain power can't solve basic problems at their door step its far reach to claim to solve world problems. Of course its posturing but a lesson for those who drink the koolaid. There is no point being wealthy if most around you are suffering and and in desperate conditions. This can't make anyone happy, except sociopaths. You have to care for other people and society beyond just your immediate interest and benefit. Unlike what Thatcher said you need a society for basic civilized life. This is where self centric individualism falls apart. Trillions of dollars are being squandered on wars and bailouts to benefit entrenched interests, all these 'individual achievers' worshiped by the neoliberal ideology. This is not how a democracy works.

ryguytilidie 9y ago
"If tech geniuses with massive resources and brain power can't solve basic problems at their door step its far reach to claim to solve world problems. Of course its posturing but a lesson for those who drink the koolaid." I get that the goal nowadays is to be a snarky jerk to everyone around you but this is just extremely bizarre. So lets say some kid from Missouri gets a job working at Pinterest. He or she work 50-60 hours a week and then try to have a life. This seems pretty normal, except to throw2016, who is angry at this supposed "genius" not solving San Francisco's homeless problem. Also this burden is only on tech people, not on anyone in finance or any other industry in SF. Got it.
rootlocus 9y ago
> If tech geniuses with massive resources and brain power can't solve basic problems at their door step its far reach to claim to solve world problems There's some talent, sure, but I wouldn't call every software developer in SF "tech genius"...
tomjen3 9y ago
There is more point to being wealthy if being poor is a likely reality: the wealthier you are, the more insulated you are as well. And you don't have to be a sociopath either - humans are pretty good at looking away (how often do you look at pictures of starving people?) Also you assume that a person who is good at solving one class of problems is also good at solving other classes of problems. This is not so. Anyway there are solutions that are not hard, but they mostly involve putting these people under guardianship and getting them of the streets, then into assisted living for those with mental issues and some for of work program for those who are just on drugs. The once whoes only issue is that they don't have place to stay need help too, but they are typically not the one you see on the street, because they are sane enough to sleep in cars, behave normally during the day, have a place to shower at a gym or similar, etc. I doubt enough housing could be constructed to help them, as it seems the more housing there is, the more people come there in search of better oppertunities - a potential solution (although diabolical) would be to raise the minimum wage enough that there aren't jobs for the people who can't afford to live there (less diabolically minded people would point out that it would make it more attractive to have a longer commute and that some of the people who are able to maintain their jobs would now be able to afford housing).

dredmorbius 9y ago

Those prefering not to have a massive autoplaying hero animation can add the following host to their dnamasq, pi-hole, or /etc/hosts blocklist(s): cdn.jwplayer.com

codeisawesome 9y ago

Absolutely hate to say this, but will the USA's first "Dharavi" form in SF? I was hoping for the reverse direction instead, and things getting better for "everyone else" instead :(

asadlionpk 9y ago

This was how I summarized SF to my friends: Billionaires inside the building, disrupting the world. Homeless sleeping just outside in the cold.

neom 9y ago

I've talked to a few SF natives about this, and the consensus seems to be: people who came from other(/nicer) towns and went to good schools moved here for the software revolution and gave no shits about our city or it's problems. I'm sure everyone remembers the Justin Keller blog post.

sebtoast 9y ago
I couldn't find the blog post itself but I found a Guardian article on it https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/17/san-francisco-tech-open-letter-i-dont-want-to-see-homeless-riff-raff https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/17/san-franc...
rootlocus 9y ago
> I'm sure everyone remembers the Justin Keller blog post. Never heard of it. Is it https://justink.svbtle.com/open-letter-to-mayor-ed-lee-and-greg-suhr-police-chief https://justink.svbtle.com/open-letter-to-mayor-ed-lee-and-g... ?

klingkyle04 9y ago

San Francisco has too many problems which is why I moved to NY: Dangerous & Dirty: I have been verbally and physically abused walking in San Francisco. My wife can't walk around by herself because of such problems. My friends were physically assaulted while biking. Each week I'd walk to work and someone would be screaming obscene language at others. I've sat in coffee shops where someone would walk in and grab my food, destroy the public restroom or have to be kicked out by cops. Streets are littered with people, garbage, human waste and more. My family refuses to visit after what they saw the first time. Theft: I have had my car broken into several times mid day in very public places. My bike lock clipped and bike stolen on Market street mid day. I have people break into my elder's home even in San Jose and steal many items. Nudity: I understand this is an 'open city' but I've seen men expose themselves while walking by the park of children at Dolores. I've seen a tremendous amount of nude people walking around different streets of the city exposing themselves to tourists, kids, strangers and more yearly. I've seen people publicly masturbate on public transportation and different parts of the city. Cost: The pricing for apartments are astronomical. The quality for most are horrendous. I've always had to share apartments with others. It's a problem for rich and poor. My relatives had to move out of the city because they'll never be able to afford a decent home in the bay area because they make a average american wage. I've had friends that are quant traders that refuse to bring their families to SF because it's too expensive - they fly back every weekend to their family because it's cheaper. My uncle sits on a duplex with no yard in south San Jose, that hasn't been touched for 30 years, has eroded greatly and it's somehow still worth more the $1M. Nothing will change anytime soon. People of all backgrounds are moving out of the bay area. Startups will move out of the city. Larger companies will move. I hope it gets better but I don't think it will. Which is why I left. Best of luck to those still there.

gadders 9y ago

https://www.city-journal.org/html/sidewalks-san-francisco-13321.html https://www.city-journal.org/html/sidewalks-san-francisco-13... "Finally, the homelessness advocates pulled out their trump card: associating supporters of the Civil Sidewalks law with “business interests.” San Francisco “progressives” regard businessmen as aliens within the body politic whose main function is to provide an inexhaustible well of funds to transfer to the city’s social-services empire. "

jimrandomh 9y ago

This is what happens when you use zoning to suppress residential construction across an entire state. All those people have to end up somewhere, and if you don't allow enough apartments to be built then, well, they won't be living in apartments. The psychiatric and substance problems mostly appear afterwards.

jondubois 9y ago

I just don't understand how a city that has so many millionaires and billionaires can let this happen. Silicon valley has been shamelessly monopolising the media and presenting itself as a meritocracy in order to attract desperate people to work there... But the promise almost always falls short. VCs and executives of SV companies have been conspiring to attract as many people as possible to SV, filtering out all the 'bad ones' and then dumping them onto the streets like garbage. What's ironic is that the people who are causing the problem are often the ones who like to think of themselves as being morally irreproachable. I was surprised when I realized that a lot of people in SV believe that capitalism is some sort of moral code in itself; one in which profit is a quantifiable manifestation of societal improvement. To me, profit has always been about being in the right place at the right time and then finding some shady way to squeeze yourself between various counterparties. Middlemen are catalysts for the system; they speed things up in the short term but you end up with something of lower quality in the end.

thatswrong0 9y ago
Let this happen? You’re acting like it’s some easy problem to fix when it’s not. Many of the homeless here are suffering from mental illnesses.. what should a millionaire walking down the street do for them? What about drug addicts? Speaking from first hand experience, even people with the resources to deal with it struggle to properly help friends and family with drug addictions. The people of San Francisco pay a lot in taxes, and a lot of those tax dollars are used in an effort to curb homelessness, yet it feels like the problem is only getting worse, not better. How do we know our taxes are being used fruitfully? Should every millionaire go into the streets and inspect how homeless shelters and kitchens are being run? Do you expect every millionaire to make it their life’s work to address the issue? Do you expect them to give up their current interests and ambitions and try to setup new rehab clinics for all of the addicts and mental health clinics for those who aren’t well mentally? Because I really don’t understand what you’re asking of them.

vorotato 9y ago

bizzare that tech workers do this mecca thing when remote work exists. It's so strange.