5 ms·

I feel like we should start organizing the resistance to this "you just call for it" now. I liek my car. I like owning my car. I like keeping my random stuff i

by rrhd 9y ago

I feel like we should start organizing the resistance to this "you just call for it" now. I liek my car. I like owning my car. I like keeping my random stuff in my car. I like being able to jump in my car and go on a trip if I want. I like having my dog in my car. How is "oh well you just call for a car" better?

nathanaldensr 9y ago
I suspect the mindset is a rather typical one: "I don't value what a personal car gives me, therefore no one does (or should)."
- nrb 9y ago
  I think the mindset is probably closer to "tens of thousands of people each year are needlessly dying a preventable death, and many times more people are injured" With that ideology, you are already ready to give up control of the vehicle. It's not much of a jump from there to give up ownership, especially if that means only paying for what you use and not having to constantly maintain it.
LeifCarrotson 9y ago
That's great. I like my car too. I think it's important to note, though, that while I enjoy owning my car I do not enjoy paying for it. If there was a reasonable alternative to that $10,000 a year luxury that is car ownership, many people would take that alternative. They might take it gladly or take it reluctantly, but they would still take it.
- BRAlNlAC 9y ago
  >a reasonable alternative to that $10,000 a year luxury that is car ownership This fundamentally isn't true. I've had a used Camry for almost a decade and the annual cost of ownership including purchase price, maintenance, registration and insurance is around 2,500 dollars. It has given me a place to store my things when I have limited housing, it is always ready with all my effects when I want to leave, and I am very much in tune with how the car should feel when it is on the road which gives me considerable comfort. Politically, expect any sort of legislation trying to force "legacy" cars off the road as being anti-poor, because it is. Cars don't have to be expensive.
  - r00fus 9y ago
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-ca... As of 2103 the average yearly cost of ownership was $9000. I doubt it's gone done since.
    - Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
      That includes depreciation, which is effectively the cost of the car. If you own the car outright and aren’t planning on selling it, this is effectively zero.
      - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
        Depreciation is the difference between the price of the vehicle when you purchase it, and the value of the car when you can no longer drive it - whether that's because you sold it, because it died, or because you died. There are different amounts of depreciation between a 2-year-lease of a new vehicle, a purchase of a 50k mile vehicle sold at 150k, and the purchase of a 200k mile vehicle that's sold to the scrapyard to be melted down for steel...but it's all depreciation.
        Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
        The thing with including depreciation in the "cost" is that it doesn't actually matter to individuals. To a business, depreciation is a real thing that affects their tax return. The Canada Revenue Agency has a lot of rules around how to depreciate assets and how they affect income. I'm sure the IRS has similar rules. To a person, this is not the case. If I have a $10,000 car loan on a $20,000 car, the only things that matter are the down payment of $10,000 and the regular loan payments. If I pay the loan off over five years but the car has a 10 year useful life, those last five years are effectively free. Yes, from a pure accounting perspective I would debit the asset account for my car, credit cash for the down payment, and credit a liability account for the car loan. But in reality, that doesn't actually matter. There is no impact on my taxes by amortizing my car over 10 years vs 5 years. The only impacts are how the down payment affected my savings and how the loan payments affect my cash flow.
- billrobertson42 9y ago
  Your car budget is $10k a year? What are you driving?
  - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
    When you add together an average car payment (or payment to your own personal 'car fund'), insurance (I'm in Michigan, so because of our stupid no-fault unlimited PIP it's close to $200/month by itself), gas (15k miles, 25 mpg, $2.50 = $1500), oil/maintenance, the average eventually comes out to around $10k/year. Personally, I'm driving an old vehicle and the total annual cost has been about half that, but on the average people are spending that much.
    - billrobertson42 9y ago
      d'oh! the extras... Did not even occur to me there. ;-)

by rrhd 9y ago

nathanaldensr 9y ago

I suspect the mindset is a rather typical one: "I don't value what a personal car gives me, therefore no one does (or should)."

nrb 9y ago
I think the mindset is probably closer to "tens of thousands of people each year are needlessly dying a preventable death, and many times more people are injured" With that ideology, you are already ready to give up control of the vehicle. It's not much of a jump from there to give up ownership, especially if that means only paying for what you use and not having to constantly maintain it.

LeifCarrotson 9y ago

That's great. I like my car too. I think it's important to note, though, that while I enjoy owning my car I do not enjoy paying for it. If there was a reasonable alternative to that $10,000 a year luxury that is car ownership, many people would take that alternative. They might take it gladly or take it reluctantly, but they would still take it.

BRAlNlAC 9y ago
>a reasonable alternative to that $10,000 a year luxury that is car ownership This fundamentally isn't true. I've had a used Camry for almost a decade and the annual cost of ownership including purchase price, maintenance, registration and insurance is around 2,500 dollars. It has given me a place to store my things when I have limited housing, it is always ready with all my effects when I want to leave, and I am very much in tune with how the car should feel when it is on the road which gives me considerable comfort. Politically, expect any sort of legislation trying to force "legacy" cars off the road as being anti-poor, because it is. Cars don't have to be expensive.
- r00fus 9y ago
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-ca... As of 2103 the average yearly cost of ownership was $9000. I doubt it's gone done since.
  - Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
    That includes depreciation, which is effectively the cost of the car. If you own the car outright and aren’t planning on selling it, this is effectively zero.
    - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
      Depreciation is the difference between the price of the vehicle when you purchase it, and the value of the car when you can no longer drive it - whether that's because you sold it, because it died, or because you died. There are different amounts of depreciation between a 2-year-lease of a new vehicle, a purchase of a 50k mile vehicle sold at 150k, and the purchase of a 200k mile vehicle that's sold to the scrapyard to be melted down for steel...but it's all depreciation.
      - Mister_Snuggles 9y ago
        The thing with including depreciation in the "cost" is that it doesn't actually matter to individuals. To a business, depreciation is a real thing that affects their tax return. The Canada Revenue Agency has a lot of rules around how to depreciate assets and how they affect income. I'm sure the IRS has similar rules. To a person, this is not the case. If I have a $10,000 car loan on a $20,000 car, the only things that matter are the down payment of $10,000 and the regular loan payments. If I pay the loan off over five years but the car has a 10 year useful life, those last five years are effectively free. Yes, from a pure accounting perspective I would debit the asset account for my car, credit cash for the down payment, and credit a liability account for the car loan. But in reality, that doesn't actually matter. There is no impact on my taxes by amortizing my car over 10 years vs 5 years. The only impacts are how the down payment affected my savings and how the loan payments affect my cash flow.
billrobertson42 9y ago
Your car budget is $10k a year? What are you driving?
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  When you add together an average car payment (or payment to your own personal 'car fund'), insurance (I'm in Michigan, so because of our stupid no-fault unlimited PIP it's close to $200/month by itself), gas (15k miles, 25 mpg, $2.50 = $1500), oil/maintenance, the average eventually comes out to around $10k/year. Personally, I'm driving an old vehicle and the total annual cost has been about half that, but on the average people are spending that much.
  - billrobertson42 9y ago
    d'oh! the extras... Did not even occur to me there. ;-)