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> If they make it illegal to offshore money... ... then the US would immediately end up losing all it's multinational companies to less insane countries.

vkou 9y ago
Is Apple going to pack up and move 50,000 people from Cupertino to the Cayman Islands?
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  Apple might not, but we were talking in general
anigbrowl 9y ago
Prove it. I think companies like being in the US because of the sophisticated capital markets, strong and predictable legal environment, and deep pockets of American consumers. I'd like some evidence instead of hyperbole.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  Huawei and Samsung seem to be operating in the US just fine.
  - opo 9y ago
    Oh, would you then also force Samsung to pay US taxes on all profits it made in Korea and elsewhere? The same for Huawei and the profits it makes in China? For obvious reasons, no other developed country in the world has a corporate tax system like the US. We should try to reform it, not make it worse.
    - MichaelGG 9y ago
      Exactly. I honestly do not understand how people think Apple is evading US taxes on overseas sales. Seems like any real way of taxing them on it will be a bad solution and advantage foreign companies. A lower repatriation rate seems like a good idea to get money back into the US for local spending as well as collecting a bit in taxes.
- __blockcipher__ 9y ago
  How about you provide the evidence? If US makes it defacto illegal to operate internationally as a US-based company, the US will lose its economic moat within a matter of decades [citation needed, I know] I’m not a tax expert but IME the people who are blaming Apple don’t know what they’re talking about. Only the US has such an insane attitude towards international profits. And remember that there’s no loophole to close, unless the “loophole” is deciding what to do with your capital. Who is the US to tell Apple that its foreign subsidiaries must return their foreign-made profits back to the US? Also remember that with our current laws, repatriating the money before a tax holiday is arguably a violation of Apple’s fiduciary duty to its shareholders.
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    The person making the claim has the burden of proof. Maybe repeating a string of specious arguments that have already been debunked or refuted elsewhere in the thread isn't the best approach for your brand-new HN account.
    - __blockcipher__ 9y ago
      Debunked/refuted where? I admit I haven't provided much in the way of evidence. However we're talking about a complicated tax situation so it's hard to stick to the concrete. Do you agree that the only way to "close the loophole" is to force companies to repatriate their earnings? I don't see another way to address it. Right now the issue is that iff Apple repatriates its money, it must pay taxes. So Apple has been fulfilling their fiduciary obligations by opting not to repatriate (which would destroy 30%+ of the value, I don't know the actual number but I believe I am being conservative), instead choosing to take on cheap debt domestically to fund share repurchases. Thus I don't see a "solution" to the "loophole" (obviously I don't believe it's a loophole because it's the law) that doesn't involve forced repatriation. If there's something wrong with what I've said or something I haven't considered, I'm all ears.
  - Frondo 9y ago
    No one is saying the US would make it illegal to operate an international company. They're looking for ways to close some of these loopholes that are keeping a ton of tax money out of the coffers belonging to We the People. Please don't conflate "closing tax loopholes" with "making it illegal to operate internationally".

vkou 9y ago

Is Apple going to pack up and move 50,000 people from Cupertino to the Cayman Islands?

abritinthebay 9y ago
Apple might not, but we were talking in general

anigbrowl 9y ago

Prove it. I think companies like being in the US because of the sophisticated capital markets, strong and predictable legal environment, and deep pockets of American consumers. I'd like some evidence instead of hyperbole.

MichaelGG 9y ago
Huawei and Samsung seem to be operating in the US just fine.
- opo 9y ago
  Oh, would you then also force Samsung to pay US taxes on all profits it made in Korea and elsewhere? The same for Huawei and the profits it makes in China? For obvious reasons, no other developed country in the world has a corporate tax system like the US. We should try to reform it, not make it worse.
  - MichaelGG 9y ago
    Exactly. I honestly do not understand how people think Apple is evading US taxes on overseas sales. Seems like any real way of taxing them on it will be a bad solution and advantage foreign companies. A lower repatriation rate seems like a good idea to get money back into the US for local spending as well as collecting a bit in taxes.
__blockcipher__ 9y ago
How about you provide the evidence? If US makes it defacto illegal to operate internationally as a US-based company, the US will lose its economic moat within a matter of decades [citation needed, I know] I’m not a tax expert but IME the people who are blaming Apple don’t know what they’re talking about. Only the US has such an insane attitude towards international profits. And remember that there’s no loophole to close, unless the “loophole” is deciding what to do with your capital. Who is the US to tell Apple that its foreign subsidiaries must return their foreign-made profits back to the US? Also remember that with our current laws, repatriating the money before a tax holiday is arguably a violation of Apple’s fiduciary duty to its shareholders.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  The person making the claim has the burden of proof. Maybe repeating a string of specious arguments that have already been debunked or refuted elsewhere in the thread isn't the best approach for your brand-new HN account.
  - __blockcipher__ 9y ago
    Debunked/refuted where? I admit I haven't provided much in the way of evidence. However we're talking about a complicated tax situation so it's hard to stick to the concrete. Do you agree that the only way to "close the loophole" is to force companies to repatriate their earnings? I don't see another way to address it. Right now the issue is that iff Apple repatriates its money, it must pay taxes. So Apple has been fulfilling their fiduciary obligations by opting not to repatriate (which would destroy 30%+ of the value, I don't know the actual number but I believe I am being conservative), instead choosing to take on cheap debt domestically to fund share repurchases. Thus I don't see a "solution" to the "loophole" (obviously I don't believe it's a loophole because it's the law) that doesn't involve forced repatriation. If there's something wrong with what I've said or something I haven't considered, I'm all ears.
- Frondo 9y ago
  No one is saying the US would make it illegal to operate an international company. They're looking for ways to close some of these loopholes that are keeping a ton of tax money out of the coffers belonging to We the People. Please don't conflate "closing tax loopholes" with "making it illegal to operate internationally".