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Woah woah woah. Let me recount/nutshell the crux of conversations I've had with my product manager(s) about things like this. Me: Hey, I'd like to add a work-i

Woah woah woah. Let me recount/nutshell the crux of conversations I've had with my product manager(s) about things like this. Me: Hey, I'd like to add a work-item to our current sprint that reworks semantic attributes into our site. Them: What would that do? Me: It improves the underlying architecture making the markup more usable and extensible. Them: How does that benefit the users? Me: Over time it will reduce the TTM for features and allows us to adopt a common standard others use on the web. Them: So there's no UI and it won't affect their workflow? Me: Well, no. Them: Then why would you suggest it? We don't have the budget to add meaningless development tasks. I might be biased towards thinking there are plenty of developers and engineers out there thinking about this stuff but we don't always get the final say in what is done. Also, a lot of enterprise applications were and continue to be around before many of these standards. It's a struggle to improve what doesn't directly add to the bottom line.

scarlac 9y ago
This is true in a very practical sense: Product people will not care about engineering specifics. But that being said, I think you're missing the important take-away from that conclusion: You must decide that it's necessary. As an engineer, you are the most qualified individual to determine if something is technically necessary. Just like you decided that proper indentation, unit tests, refactors, etc. are important, so must we decide that other elements are.
dpark 9y ago
> It's a struggle to improve what doesn't directly add to the bottom line. That's exactly the point and you're essentially nitpicking (with anecdata) the fact that he pinned the problem on developers instead of product managers. Regardless of who is making the decision in companies, the end result is pretty much the same.
yawaramin 9y ago
> How does that benefit the users? It brings the site closer to recommended accessibility guidelines, making it easier for e.g. people who have vision loss to navigate. It also reduces our potential legal liability to such users for not meeting accessibility requirements.
ric2b 9y ago
Try to make those requests via e-mail, so you have something to show when it breaks or becomes hard to maintain.
- twothamendment 9y ago
  I've learned when I have to start getting things in writing that it is time to find a better job. I can't stand playing games at work.
blibble 9y ago
presumably if google broke your crappily marked up website then you'd be able to justify fixing it? so what's the problem?

scarlac 9y ago

This is true in a very practical sense: Product people will not care about engineering specifics. But that being said, I think you're missing the important take-away from that conclusion: You must decide that it's necessary. As an engineer, you are the most qualified individual to determine if something is technically necessary. Just like you decided that proper indentation, unit tests, refactors, etc. are important, so must we decide that other elements are.

dpark 9y ago

> It's a struggle to improve what doesn't directly add to the bottom line. That's exactly the point and you're essentially nitpicking (with anecdata) the fact that he pinned the problem on developers instead of product managers. Regardless of who is making the decision in companies, the end result is pretty much the same.

yawaramin 9y ago

> How does that benefit the users? It brings the site closer to recommended accessibility guidelines, making it easier for e.g. people who have vision loss to navigate. It also reduces our potential legal liability to such users for not meeting accessibility requirements.

ric2b 9y ago

Try to make those requests via e-mail, so you have something to show when it breaks or becomes hard to maintain.

twothamendment 9y ago
I've learned when I have to start getting things in writing that it is time to find a better job. I can't stand playing games at work.

blibble 9y ago

presumably if google broke your crappily marked up website then you'd be able to justify fixing it? so what's the problem?