4 ms·

Overeating also kills. Lack of exercise kills and so on. Opiods are different, IMO, because they are generally issued by doctors, and they can kill you pretty

Overeating also kills. Lack of exercise kills and so on. Opiods are different, IMO, because they are generally issued by doctors, and they can kill you pretty quickly. Alcohol and tobacco, while dangerous, do give quite a bit of time to change and be saved. Obviously the govt should do anti-smoking campaigns, but opiods are different.

Alex3917 9y ago
> Alcohol and tobacco, while dangerous, do give quite a bit of time to change and be saved. The typical tobacco death is someone in their 70s, whereas the typical alcohol death is someone in their 30s. (The majority of alcohol-related deaths are from suicide, car crashes, and slip-and-fall type injuries.) I doubt the types of deaths we're seeing from heroin are that much different than with alcohol.
- jrs95 9y ago
  True, but alcohol deaths are a much lower percentage of the drinking population than opioid deaths are to opioid users. That makes it more difficult to reduce imo. Alcohol kills indirectly in such a way that aside from efforts to curb drunk driving or drinking altogether there's not much that can be done. Personally I think mandatory breathalyzer ignition locks are probably the best you could do to quickly cut down on alcohol related deaths.
  - GordonS 9y ago
    > alcohol deaths are a much lower percentage of the drinking population than opioid deaths are to opioid users Unlike alcohol and tobacco, a lot of opioid use is illegal, and a lot is prescribed by doctors - this makes for a very different playing field. If opioids were legally and openly sold, it would likely have a big impact (I'm not saying they should be, BTW). Regulation would mean quality control, so you'd be much more likely to get what you thought you were buying. Another example, if choice was available, almost no recreational opioid user would choose fentantyl or some of the random opioid RCs that pop up, instead opting for safer versions.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - DanBC 9y ago
    drunk driving deaths are a tiny fraction of deaths caused by or hastened by alcohol. About 11,000 people die in drink driving accidents in the US. Compare that to only cirrhosis, which kills over 30,000 people per year. Excessive alcohol causes about 1 in 10 deaths in the 18-64 age group in the US.
aaronblohowiak 9y ago
I fear that we will overcorrect and make painkillers hard to get for people that are suffering. In some countries, the chronically ill are unable to get access to powerful painkillers and that is a damn shame. I also think that we need more research into pain-fighting interventions to develop non-opioid painkillers.
- GordonS 9y ago
  If you take a look at /r/ChronicPain, it's evident that this is already impacting on a lot of people. We don't need to demonise opioids, we need to carefully control their use.
  - tryingagainbro 9y ago
    at the risk of being called a heartless idiot: doesn't the body get used to opiods so x months or weeks later they no longer work as before? If so, seems like a losing game
    - GordonS 9y ago
      It depends. With kratom, as long as you don't escalate your dose, tolerance never seems to develop. I've been on a weak opioid (prescription!) for over 2 years now. The 'good sensations' left after only a couple of weeks of taking it, but it's still as effective on pain now as it was at the start.
deleted 9y ago
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simonh 9y ago
I don’t think they are, honestly. They are all dangerous substances that should be controlled or banned. However there’s no appetite to ban tobacco or alcohol. The latter was actually tried in the US and failed miserably. Persecuting opioid users has also been tried and failed miserably for exactly the same reasons. The question is what lessons do we learn from this? Tobacco and alcohol use are treated as public health issues. That should continue and be extended. This has been shown to work where outright criminalizatuon has been shown to fail. The same lesson should be applied to opioids. I don’t believe they should be legalised. As in Portugal, non medical sales should still be illegal and treated as just as serious a crime as now, but use should not. Possession of small amounts should be no more criminal that having a few too many cigarettes in your airline baggage, it should be an administrative offence. Doctors should be able to treat, help and support opioid addicts just as much as they help alcoholics without risking being treated as accessories to a crime. Providing clean needles should not be treated as a crime aiding and abetting drug use. Hundreds of thousands of users with no history of violent crime and convicted solely on the grounds of possession should be at home with their families and no more persecuted that smokers or drinkers. Crack down on the dealers and support the users to get them back into society, turn users into allies against the trade by treating them as victims. It’s been shown to work.

Alex3917 9y ago

> Alcohol and tobacco, while dangerous, do give quite a bit of time to change and be saved. The typical tobacco death is someone in their 70s, whereas the typical alcohol death is someone in their 30s. (The majority of alcohol-related deaths are from suicide, car crashes, and slip-and-fall type injuries.) I doubt the types of deaths we're seeing from heroin are that much different than with alcohol.

jrs95 9y ago
True, but alcohol deaths are a much lower percentage of the drinking population than opioid deaths are to opioid users. That makes it more difficult to reduce imo. Alcohol kills indirectly in such a way that aside from efforts to curb drunk driving or drinking altogether there's not much that can be done. Personally I think mandatory breathalyzer ignition locks are probably the best you could do to quickly cut down on alcohol related deaths.
- GordonS 9y ago
  > alcohol deaths are a much lower percentage of the drinking population than opioid deaths are to opioid users Unlike alcohol and tobacco, a lot of opioid use is illegal, and a lot is prescribed by doctors - this makes for a very different playing field. If opioids were legally and openly sold, it would likely have a big impact (I'm not saying they should be, BTW). Regulation would mean quality control, so you'd be much more likely to get what you thought you were buying. Another example, if choice was available, almost no recreational opioid user would choose fentantyl or some of the random opioid RCs that pop up, instead opting for safer versions.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- DanBC 9y ago
  drunk driving deaths are a tiny fraction of deaths caused by or hastened by alcohol. About 11,000 people die in drink driving accidents in the US. Compare that to only cirrhosis, which kills over 30,000 people per year. Excessive alcohol causes about 1 in 10 deaths in the 18-64 age group in the US.

aaronblohowiak 9y ago

I fear that we will overcorrect and make painkillers hard to get for people that are suffering. In some countries, the chronically ill are unable to get access to powerful painkillers and that is a damn shame. I also think that we need more research into pain-fighting interventions to develop non-opioid painkillers.

GordonS 9y ago
If you take a look at /r/ChronicPain, it's evident that this is already impacting on a lot of people. We don't need to demonise opioids, we need to carefully control their use.
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  at the risk of being called a heartless idiot: doesn't the body get used to opiods so x months or weeks later they no longer work as before? If so, seems like a losing game
  - GordonS 9y ago
    It depends. With kratom, as long as you don't escalate your dose, tolerance never seems to develop. I've been on a weak opioid (prescription!) for over 2 years now. The 'good sensations' left after only a couple of weeks of taking it, but it's still as effective on pain now as it was at the start.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

simonh 9y ago

I don’t think they are, honestly. They are all dangerous substances that should be controlled or banned. However there’s no appetite to ban tobacco or alcohol. The latter was actually tried in the US and failed miserably. Persecuting opioid users has also been tried and failed miserably for exactly the same reasons. The question is what lessons do we learn from this? Tobacco and alcohol use are treated as public health issues. That should continue and be extended. This has been shown to work where outright criminalizatuon has been shown to fail. The same lesson should be applied to opioids. I don’t believe they should be legalised. As in Portugal, non medical sales should still be illegal and treated as just as serious a crime as now, but use should not. Possession of small amounts should be no more criminal that having a few too many cigarettes in your airline baggage, it should be an administrative offence. Doctors should be able to treat, help and support opioid addicts just as much as they help alcoholics without risking being treated as accessories to a crime. Providing clean needles should not be treated as a crime aiding and abetting drug use. Hundreds of thousands of users with no history of violent crime and convicted solely on the grounds of possession should be at home with their families and no more persecuted that smokers or drinkers. Crack down on the dealers and support the users to get them back into society, turn users into allies against the trade by treating them as victims. It’s been shown to work.