8 ms·

> Don't forget the peer review and vetting process. Which is almost universally done for free by the editorial/review panel for the given journal. > As for th

by remus 9y ago

> Don't forget the peer review and vetting process. Which is almost universally done for free by the editorial/review panel for the given journal. > As for the price I don't think it's really that expensive. I've never heard of a research University unable to afford it. It would be nice if everyone had access to research, not just those who happen to work in organisations with deep enough pockets. > And if not for the fees we'd have no journals. Why? > Maybe when we are post scarcity then it'd be free. But until then people's time is not unlimited and is worth something. The people who put in the time (editorial board) and expertise (reviewers) aren't getting paid. If they're not getting paid then where is all the money going? Personally I think the value is in the bits that are currently all done for free, Im not sure what value the publishers really add.

jklein11 9y ago
It seems that the publisher's value is curating studies that have gone through this process. If you were to find a study through Sci-Hub would you know that it had gone through editorial/review panel? How do you know that the study is trustworthy?
- remus 9y ago
  Surely that's the work of the editorial board? Again, they are largely unpaid as far as Im aware. This makes interesting reading if you're interested in how a free (or at least very low cost) journal can work https://gowers.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/discrete-analysis-an-arxiv-overlay-journal/ https://gowers.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/discrete-analysis-an...
HaoZeke 9y ago
Peer review has little to no financial impact..
pas 9y ago
> Which is almost universally done for free by the editorial/review panel for the given journal. Is there good data on this? (I mean, I guess there is, but would someone present it to ignoramuses such as myself? Thanks.)
- remus 9y ago
  I'm not aware of any, though I haven't really looked. My understanding is that peer review is done for free because it's understood that it's a necessary part of science. That is, you review other peoples papers for free because they'll do the same for you. I guess that falls down a bit because I bet there is a very uneven distribution of peer review work, but it's a nice sentiment at least!
cobookman 9y ago
Sounds like you should start your own free journal. That's the easiest and fastest way of getting these papers out for free.
- stale2002 9y ago
  Someone did. It's called Sci-Hub.
  - Bedon292 9y ago
    Sci-Hub is not a Journal itself. It is hosting other Journals' data. However https://www.plos.org/ https://www.plos.org/ does exist and it is a free to access Journal. Unfortunately it is pay to publish. I am unaware of any completely free Journal on both the reader and author end.
    - pmyteh 9y ago
      There a few. I published a paper in the Journal of Information Policy once, whose (small) expenses are covered by a grant, IIRC from libraries that would otherwise have to pay through a publisher. Very field specific, though.
    - jimnotgym 9y ago
      Isn't that what the World Wide Web was designed to do, before the web app? Why not just publish online on a university site, or a site for your specialty?
      - nostrademons 9y ago
        Traditionally journals have required that the author transfer copyright of the paper to the journal upon publication. They no longer have the right to publish a copy on their own university site; some journals allow it, but many stipulate that the full text cannot be available without a paywall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_policies_of_academic_publishers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_policies_of_academic... That's changing, and many journals are moving to open-access policies, but it's slow, and the most prestigious journals often have the least incentive to grant authors published in them copyright of the work. (There's something fucked up about authors transferring copyright of publicly-funded research to private entities: if the public funded it, shouldn't it be owned by the public in the first place, i.e. public-domain? And if it's public domain, then this whole issue goes away and neither the journal nor the author has the right to restrict access to the research. But this is one example of the capture of public goods by private entities. Hell, maybe this is why a good swath of America wants to de-fund science any chance it gets, when the result of their funding just gets captured by private entities.)

by remus 9y ago

jklein11 9y ago

It seems that the publisher's value is curating studies that have gone through this process. If you were to find a study through Sci-Hub would you know that it had gone through editorial/review panel? How do you know that the study is trustworthy?

remus 9y ago
Surely that's the work of the editorial board? Again, they are largely unpaid as far as Im aware. This makes interesting reading if you're interested in how a free (or at least very low cost) journal can work https://gowers.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/discrete-analysis-an-arxiv-overlay-journal/ https://gowers.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/discrete-analysis-an...

HaoZeke 9y ago

Peer review has little to no financial impact..

pas 9y ago

> Which is almost universally done for free by the editorial/review panel for the given journal. Is there good data on this? (I mean, I guess there is, but would someone present it to ignoramuses such as myself? Thanks.)

remus 9y ago
I'm not aware of any, though I haven't really looked. My understanding is that peer review is done for free because it's understood that it's a necessary part of science. That is, you review other peoples papers for free because they'll do the same for you. I guess that falls down a bit because I bet there is a very uneven distribution of peer review work, but it's a nice sentiment at least!

cobookman 9y ago

Sounds like you should start your own free journal. That's the easiest and fastest way of getting these papers out for free.

stale2002 9y ago
Someone did. It's called Sci-Hub.
- Bedon292 9y ago
  Sci-Hub is not a Journal itself. It is hosting other Journals' data. However https://www.plos.org/ https://www.plos.org/ does exist and it is a free to access Journal. Unfortunately it is pay to publish. I am unaware of any completely free Journal on both the reader and author end.
  - pmyteh 9y ago
    There a few. I published a paper in the Journal of Information Policy once, whose (small) expenses are covered by a grant, IIRC from libraries that would otherwise have to pay through a publisher. Very field specific, though.
  - jimnotgym 9y ago
    Isn't that what the World Wide Web was designed to do, before the web app? Why not just publish online on a university site, or a site for your specialty?
    - nostrademons 9y ago
      Traditionally journals have required that the author transfer copyright of the paper to the journal upon publication. They no longer have the right to publish a copy on their own university site; some journals allow it, but many stipulate that the full text cannot be available without a paywall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_policies_of_academic_publishers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_policies_of_academic... That's changing, and many journals are moving to open-access policies, but it's slow, and the most prestigious journals often have the least incentive to grant authors published in them copyright of the work. (There's something fucked up about authors transferring copyright of publicly-funded research to private entities: if the public funded it, shouldn't it be owned by the public in the first place, i.e. public-domain? And if it's public domain, then this whole issue goes away and neither the journal nor the author has the right to restrict access to the research. But this is one example of the capture of public goods by private entities. Hell, maybe this is why a good swath of America wants to de-fund science any chance it gets, when the result of their funding just gets captured by private entities.)