5 ms·

Can someone ELI5 why Intel needs an OS in the processor?

bryanlarsen 9y ago
If you're a sysadmin for a machine that you don't have physical access to, and the main OS is hosed, how do you fix it? It's a very useful feature for large enterprises, and pretty much only for them. The interesting question is why doesn't Intel charge "enterprise pricing" for the feature, just like they do for stuff like ECC?
- dimitar 9y ago
  It's probably cheaper to just ship it everywhere and enable it on enterprises
  - digi_owl 9y ago
    Also BYOD...
- mnw21cam 9y ago
  It's also the method by which a sysadmin will get to hear of drive failures in hardware RAID arrays, ECC memory errors, and other things relevant to the general upkeep of a server, regardless of the OS running and whether it is hosed or not.
- vidarh 9y ago
  IPMI. IPMI is not integrated into the main CPU, so you don't have direct ability to control the state of the main CPU, but (depending on implementation) you'll be able to access sensor data, operate on the sensor data logs, get a console etc. With a properly set up system it means you have a standard way to attach, request a reboot and and interact with the system remotely.
  - bryanlarsen 9y ago
    IPMI works great on the server, not so well for managing desktops. Perhaps it should have been extended to support desktops, but I'm not surprised that Intel chose to push vPro instead.
    - vidarh 9y ago
      Well, yes, they'd rather push an option that doesn't give other companies an opportunity to play in that market.
aylons 9y ago
It's the most reliable way to provide a full set of entrenched vulnerabilities, user espionage tools and privacy-evading mechanisms.
d33 9y ago
Because the implementation of all the complexity within would be much buggier if they tried to pull it all off from scratch. Also, it would be more expensive. The official application of ME is, well, about managing the hardware. This means it has to work with lots of different components, including coordination of the resources available. When you think of it, that's pretty much the definition of an OS. Instead of writing their own one, they decided to use one of the ones already available.
turblety 9y ago
Also remember while a case can be made (although in my opinion a very weak one) for why you need a separate computer running beside your main processor, the main issue people have is that you: - Can not see what that operating system is doing - Can not read the source code for that operating system - Can not stop or manage that operating system - Can not upload/change/edit anything to do with that operating system
- zaarn 9y ago
  I think it should be considered that none of these things are inherent to an OS running in a side CPU to the main CPU. Rather, these are symptoms of specific implementations.
- qznc 9y ago
  There are a lot more processors in your computer. Every hard disk has a computer [0] and your power adapter might too [1]. Seriously, who knows how many general purpose chips are inside a computer these days? [0] http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=3 http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=3 [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/01/apples-lightning-digital-av-adapter-found-to-have-embedded-arm-processor http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/01/apples-lightning-d...
  - turblety 9y ago
    Do they all have direct access to every other device, memory and hard drive connected to your computer. Genuine question, I'm not sure but I would have thought they have to go through the main processor to access those devices. However with ME and PSP they have complete access to everything you do on your computer. It can record your screen, monitor your traffic, connect to the internet, etc
criddell 9y ago
It does hardware initialization. This used to be done with dip switches but is now handled by the BUP module in the ME. It's basically the first thing that is executed on power on. If you wanted to neuter the ME, it would probably be safe to do so after the BUP module finishes its work.

If you're a sysadmin for a machine that you don't have physical access to, and the main OS is hosed, how do you fix it? It's a very useful feature for large enterprises, and pretty much only for them. The interesting question is why doesn't Intel charge "enterprise pricing" for the feature, just like they do for stuff like ECC?

dimitar 9y ago
It's probably cheaper to just ship it everywhere and enable it on enterprises
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Also BYOD...
mnw21cam 9y ago
It's also the method by which a sysadmin will get to hear of drive failures in hardware RAID arrays, ECC memory errors, and other things relevant to the general upkeep of a server, regardless of the OS running and whether it is hosed or not.
vidarh 9y ago
IPMI. IPMI is not integrated into the main CPU, so you don't have direct ability to control the state of the main CPU, but (depending on implementation) you'll be able to access sensor data, operate on the sensor data logs, get a console etc. With a properly set up system it means you have a standard way to attach, request a reboot and and interact with the system remotely.
- bryanlarsen 9y ago
  IPMI works great on the server, not so well for managing desktops. Perhaps it should have been extended to support desktops, but I'm not surprised that Intel chose to push vPro instead.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    Well, yes, they'd rather push an option that doesn't give other companies an opportunity to play in that market.

aylons 9y ago

It's the most reliable way to provide a full set of entrenched vulnerabilities, user espionage tools and privacy-evading mechanisms.

d33 9y ago

Because the implementation of all the complexity within would be much buggier if they tried to pull it all off from scratch. Also, it would be more expensive. The official application of ME is, well, about managing the hardware. This means it has to work with lots of different components, including coordination of the resources available. When you think of it, that's pretty much the definition of an OS. Instead of writing their own one, they decided to use one of the ones already available.

turblety 9y ago

Also remember while a case can be made (although in my opinion a very weak one) for why you need a separate computer running beside your main processor, the main issue people have is that you: - Can not see what that operating system is doing - Can not read the source code for that operating system - Can not stop or manage that operating system - Can not upload/change/edit anything to do with that operating system

zaarn 9y ago
I think it should be considered that none of these things are inherent to an OS running in a side CPU to the main CPU. Rather, these are symptoms of specific implementations.
qznc 9y ago
There are a lot more processors in your computer. Every hard disk has a computer [0] and your power adapter might too [1]. Seriously, who knows how many general purpose chips are inside a computer these days? [0] http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=3 http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=3 [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/01/apples-lightning-digital-av-adapter-found-to-have-embedded-arm-processor http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/01/apples-lightning-d...
- turblety 9y ago
  Do they all have direct access to every other device, memory and hard drive connected to your computer. Genuine question, I'm not sure but I would have thought they have to go through the main processor to access those devices. However with ME and PSP they have complete access to everything you do on your computer. It can record your screen, monitor your traffic, connect to the internet, etc

criddell 9y ago

It does hardware initialization. This used to be done with dip switches but is now handled by the BUP module in the ME. It's basically the first thing that is executed on power on. If you wanted to neuter the ME, it would probably be safe to do so after the BUP module finishes its work.