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Disclaimer: I design the machines and games for a living. 1) regarding near miss, with basic math knowledge you can easily calculate the odds of near miss. Eg.

Disclaimer: I design the machines and games for a living. 1) regarding near miss, with basic math knowledge you can easily calculate the odds of near miss. Eg. with 2 special symbols per 30 symbol reel, for a 3x5 reel game, you have a 1:5 chance of seeing the special symbol per reel, or once per spin for a 5 reel game. The odds of a 4 symbol near miss is (1:5)^4, which is 1:625, or once every 30 minutes. With a bank of 30 machines, someone will have near miss fanfare every minute. If a bigger win is (1:5)^5, that is 1:3125 spins, or every 150 minutes per machine. That same 30 EGM bank will be paying out a large win every 5 minutes, ie. just short enough for every player on the bank to realise that the machines are “hot”. Its not planned, it just works out that way. 2) when it comes to addiction, if the stats the media are stating is correct, every 6th employee in the industry would also be addicted (using the definition of addiction used from chemical substance abuse). Since there is no measurable difference in addiction levels for employees (who spend 40hrs per week interacting with slots) and players who spend less time, the addiction argument looses its basis. 3) games adjusting payouts based on the outcome of previous games are illegal. The industry is heavily regulated (independant compliance agencies), and no operator wants to lose their license doing illegal things. 4) people have a natural tendency to arrange items, from socks and underwear in drawers, to payout symbols on the screen. There is a natural high people get when they complete a sorting job. I’ve worked with 3 big slot companies, and none of them had paid psychologists on call - there is no need. 5) its a voluntery activity. There are lots of people who enjoy the activity, the excitement, the thrill, etc and they’re responsible enough to only wager less than the cost of a theatre ticket. Sometimes they finish the night with more money than they brought in. Its a regulated activity for adults.

sigi45 9y ago
Do you have much experience in taking a look who is playing your slot machines? I mean do you really go to places and check it out for a few hours? Here in germany there are small casinos. Not real casinos but with a few machines like 5-20. I went to such a place because there was a pool table in thenext room. I saw, while playing pool, how a few people used multil machines at once, feed those machines 10Euros and more (around 11$) in a quick feshion. Do you think, that those people, who play on a saturday afternoon enjoying this? i mean do you really think "yes the experience im providing for them through my job is is an activity they enjoy and the enjoyment stands in relation to the amount of money they are spending". I only thought "holy shit, poor people, throwing there hard earned money away" I felt sorry for those people. so sry that i was thinking if or how i could approach them. My pool table for 2 hours and 4-5 drinks was cheaper of what one person was putting in those machines. I think they are addicted.
xwvvvvwx 9y ago
I mean, I guess you have to think like that to do the work you do, but are you really disputing the existence of gambling addiction? It seems like a pretty well documented phenomena by now.
- vim_wannabe 9y ago
  >I guess you have to think like that to do the work you do I don't think you need to start this on a free to play/social networking site/on-line shopping developer forum.
  - xwvvvvwx 9y ago
    Yeah that was a bit much. Shouldn’t post before I’ve had my coffee.
ACow_Adonis 9y ago
Out of pure curiousity, got any sources for me to read regarding 2). Just because I read it and thought: "You know what, that would be one hell of an interesting study/experiment...". Because every possible finding: whether industry involvement/employment had the effect of increasing demand, decreasing demand, or being totally irrelevant/representative of the population at large, would be an interesting outcome...
DonHopkins 9y ago
4) people have a natural tendency to arrange cocaine into nice straight lines. There is a natural high people get when they complete a snorting job. I've worked with 3 big coke dealers, and none of them had paid physicians on call - there is no need.
celticninja 9y ago
Drinking is a voluntary activity but we still have alcoholics, gambling addiction is the same. Of course no one is forcing people to gamble but similarly no one is forcing a heroin addict to keep taking the drug.
- uh_what 9y ago
  Not the best examples considering both alcohol withdrawal and heroin withdrawal can be fatal.
mr_turtle 9y ago
2. I used to work in the gaming industry too (not slots). If you're on the other side you just realize in the long run gambling is a losing proposition so you won't be pursuing the activity as hard. Also that job is a consistent stream of income. 3. Yes, but they are designed to be as addictive as possible. I'm quite appalled by online slots (Android, iPhone) where no money is at stake, but coins can be purchased, and the amount of coins purchasable is adjusted based on how much you play. I'm thinking Zynga based games primarily. 5. That's fair but a weak argument. 100% of people who go to the theatre or eat out spend money, but the amount is fixed and known up front. I guess you can say the same for slots when the payout percentage is up front, but still, Vegas wasn't built by giving away money.
albertgoeswoof 9y ago
> Its not planned, it just works out that way Oh come on, this is some doublethink if ever I saw it. > Every 6th employee in the industry would also be addicted No- the employees would be out of a job if the addicts werent in there, they see both sides of the coin, winners and losers, and have a completely different perspective on gambling. If anything I’d expect employees to be more immune to addiction than anything else. Your arguments 4 & 5 can be applied directly to hard drugs without modification. I don’t think gambling or what you do is immoral, but if your line of thinking is how you justify your job you should think again as it sounds like it doesn’t match up with your own morals.
- pc86 9y ago
  There is an important distinction between "program these 30 machines such that every 5 someone gets a pay out" and "program this machine such that 1 out of every n pulls is a pay out."
- jstanley 9y ago
  > Your arguments 4 & 5 can be applied directly to hard drugs without modification. That doesn't make them bad arguments. His arguments 4&5 are perfectly fine arguments, even when applied to hard drugs.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  "I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -Jessica Rabbit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnNvnViJpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnNvnViJpo
halhen 9y ago
Having worked with data analytics in problem gambling for ten years, your dismissal of the addictiveness of these games is either uninformed or rationalized, most likely both. Recent research in Sweden shows that some 75% of online casino turnover are from what can be loosely described as moderate risk gambling (PGSI3+) and approximately 50% from problem gambling (PGSI8+). Similarly about 25% of regular (monthly) players are problem gamblers. Of those who start playing slots monthly, 10% develop gambling problems within a year. These are bad numbers. Really bad. And they match my experience from million-players-+ databases of actual gambling data. The most significant marker to predict gambling problems is the amount wagered, say per month. The more someone plays, the higher the risk of that person having gambling problems. About 10% of players make up 80% of the turnover; about 0.1% about 10%. The Pareto principle at play, sure, but combined with the former it basically says that you can't trust the industry for advice on problem gambling. This is not your safe-little-hobby thing, and the amount players who really enjoy them are much, much, much fewer than you make it sound. The majority of the industry's revenue come from people who would like to stop but can't. This is by any useful definition neither rational nor voluntary. The main claim of the industry is "informed choice" and the users' responsibility to take control, despite loss of control being the very definition of the illness. This is another tobacco-industry-like example of society slowly realizing the hidden costs being pushed by a powerful industry to unknowing and often vulnerable third parties.
- smallstepforman 9y ago
  Human psychology studies are a tricky thing, where everyone only focuses on data which matches their preconceived notions. I'm sure that some university group has researched the cost of fashion addiction, music addiction, car addiction, holiday addiction etc. yet no-one is talking about the social cost of fashion/collections/other vices people may have. There was a large Casino court case in Australia a couple of months ago and the "experts" (if they can be called that) couldn't prove that gambling was an addictive activity, since a large portion of playerswho participated in 'gambling activities' could not be classified as addicted. Since the prosecution couldn't prove the slot machines were addictive, the case against the Casino was dropped (lots of expert testimony ended up being dismissed).
zyx321 9y ago
2) Employees are paid by the hour, they have no emotional investment in the outcome of a spin. 5) There are people who can gamble responsibly. They literally don't matter. They are small fry. Their money does not build those opulent Vegas palaces. It's all about the whales, the high rollers.
lordfoom 9y ago
This is some serious PR. "Oh we're just about giving people cheap entertainment, it's a total coincidence we profit hugely off the misery of others."
hermanhermitage 9y ago
2) The employees are not gambling, so they are not exposed to the addictive product. 3) Incorrect. Standalone progressives and linked progressives adjust the payout based on the outcome of previous games. Either the jackpot is awarded and reset, or the increment is added and will be available as a future payout. Furthermore some markets have had a history of compensators (eg fruit machine markets / awp).
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  >Furthermore some markets have had a history of compensators (eg fruit machine markets / awp). What do you mean by "compensators" and "fruit machine markets / awp", please? Another dumb question I was too embarrassed to ask in a real casino, but everybody in the gambling industry probably already knows: I've never read a slot machine "instruction manual", and the instructions on the slot machines in Amsterdam are in Dutch. So my experience is just walking up to them and pressing the buttons to learn how they work. Some times when you put money into a slot machine, it starts out in this mode where it's only blinking between a few numbered lights but doesn't spin the slots, and it seems stuck in that mode, since I can't reliably get it out of that mode by pressing all the buttons. But sometimes I can, and it's not clear what I did that I didn't do those other times. Sometimes I'm able to press enough buttons to get it out of that dumb mode and back to spinning the slots as I expected, but some times I just have to eject my money and move on to another machine. Sometimes a machine will start out in this mode, not spinning the slots, but not usually, and other nearby machines of the same type will act normally (spinning the slots the first time you use them). What's going on? Is there a reset button around the back of the machine that I don't know about? It seems like a really boring game, and I can't imagine anyone would become addicted to that mode.
  - hermanhermitage 9y ago
    A 'Compensator' is an element that dynamically controls the payout typically based on the current 'hold'. The hold being the amount of money in the machine. If I recall 'Barcrest' has a range of patents covering compensators. (For those interested). AWP is Amusement with Prize(s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusement_with_prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusement_with_prize Not sure about the Dutch market. I recall a game shipping to Netherlands called 'Golden Goals', so I believe they have class 3 gaming machines (at least in Casinos?). Its possible the machine you are talking about has the BET (per line) set high, so that your current CREDIT amount is insuffient to activate all the available LINES. On most modern video slots there is a BET per line, a possible ANTEBET a number of LINES to wager on. The total STAKE = BET * LINE + ANTEBET. The LINE lights (or BET lights in USA) will illuminate based on which valid bets. My advice is press the collect button, take your money and buy yourself a drink :) Gaming machines work on 'Negative Compound Interest' - thats all you need to know. If you keep re-'investing' you will only end up with a $0 balance. Finally every Jurisdiction typically operates on different rules. These rules are normally publically available. For instance NSW Australia has their rules outlined at: http://www.liquorandgaming.nsw.gov.au/Pages/gaming/gaming-machines/operating-a-gaming-machine/designing-a-gaming-machine.aspx http://www.liquorandgaming.nsw.gov.au/Pages/gaming/gaming-ma... This covers the national standards that are generally applicable to machines in Australia and New Zealand, and then variations and specializations for the particular market of NSW - management protocols, jackpot behaviour, prohibited features etc.
YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
About point number (4) I don't think anyone said you have psychologists on call. Slot machines have been around for hundreds of years. Obviously, someone has figured out how to best make them work. The industry clearly has the know-how to make addictive games that hook players in: if it didn't, then its machines would not be as addictive as they are. Unless we want to pretend the machines got so addictive by chance, alone. About point number (2) I really don't get what you mean here. Do you mean industry employees are gamblers themselves, or that they gamble as part of their job? I'd appreciate a clarification. About point number (5) I don't gabmle and I've never played any slots. The reason for this is that I can tell there's no way to come on top. If I play slots and win more than the house wins, then the house is losing money. So for slots machines to be profitable, players have to lose moeny. And if they weren't profitable, there wouldn't be any of them around. Since there are, it must mean players lose their money. So the people who gamble on slots either: (a) don't realise they can't win, or (b) can't help themselves despite knowing. That doesn't sound to me like an activity in which informed, responsible adults engage.
- red75prime 9y ago
  Utility of money is nonlinear, so it could be rational to throw out a small amount of money for the expectation of large payoff. Of course, it means you should never play again, when you have thrown out sufficiently large quantity of money.
- thinkingemote 9y ago
  I agree with you about the house always winning, and I also don't gamble, however you can consider the activity as a game like an arcade game where the actual playing and spending time costs money, and has value in its own right. I guess the economics is slightly more nuanced, just how you can find addictive computer games which also cost like world of Warcraft I guess
  - YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
    Good point, but the way I see it there are two parts to a gambling game: (a) the physical rewards (blinkenlights, twinkly noises etc) and (b) the monetary rewards. If the physical rewards were enough of a draw in and of themselves, I think we could reasonably expect there to be a market for games that don't involve money. For instance, I could imagine smaller, cheaper slot machines sold directly to players, to take them home and feed them coins all day, just to see the pretty lights (I mean they could get their coins back at the end of the day). The fact that there doesn't seem to be any serious interest in that sort of game machine tells me that the monetary rewards are the primary purpose of play.
csydas 9y ago
> 5) its a voluntery activity. There are lots of people who enjoy the activity, the excitement, the thrill, etc and they’re responsible enough to only wager less than the cost of a theatre ticket. Sometimes they finish the night with more money than they brought in. Its a regulated activity for adults. I'm not really sure that it's voluntary. My last several trips to Vegas I was surprised by the new number of pamphlets placed just about everywhere around the casinos (probably by law) that state in very short and simple terms how bad your odds of winning are and that gambling is not meant for making money, but it doesn't seem to stop the wave of sad stories in any way - there's an addictive quality to the games, the same that keeps kids spending hundreds or thousands on loot boxes in games. It's predatory, and yes, the gambler themselves do need to make the effort to show restraint, it's not really something that's easily controlled for a lot of the population. I'd posit that those who are able to take the hit of a loss have the same problem and addiction as those who can't take the hit of a loss; they're chasing the same high and the same result, it's just that one has a more generous buffer for failure than the other. Both are equally susceptible to over-spending.
moonbug22 9y ago
Go do something worthwhile with your life.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
sigi45 9y ago
No people don't enjoy it. If they do its your fault, that they enjoy sitting in front of a machine and pressing a button. You are part of the problem. I really mean this. You are similar to a drug dealer, weapons producer or similar people. You are part of an Industrie no one needs and makes our society a little bit less good every day. And yes everyone taking part in one way or another is responsible for it.
- freeloop3 9y ago
  There are some people, you know, that don't have the physical ability to do much else to get the same amount of entertainment in their lives. Casinos are a boon to seniors, giving them a chance to go somewhere where they can actually enjoy themselves with worrying too much. Jesus, how many sharp edges to we have to round over to make sure that adults live a "safe" life, according to your standards?
  - sigi45 9y ago
    Just to be clear: i was never in a casino before until this year when i went to Canada (i'm from germany). I was always under the assumption, that a casino is fun. Something you don't do that often, you go there to loose money and eat and drink and see people and have a little fun. When you play poker in a casino, that is somehow okayisch but on an edge: The casino gets a fair share for providing a table and a dealer. Fair i think because i had to pay 10% exchange fee or something similiar. Its fine. But than i went to a table and i lost my money way way way faster than i could grasp. Srsly fast. Like wtf fast. 100$ gone in 15 minutes. Why? Small blind was small, big blind was only 2 dollars but everyone played for 5 dollars min. Seeing the flop 5$. The dealer is quick like hell. One round doesn't take long. I went to the casino with a clear limit. I didn't change the limit, i didn't increase it, i didn't went back to an AT&T. But with a reasonble limit in place, you don't have fun in a casino for long. No way. Loosing 100$ i worked my ass of in under an hour? No srysl no. This is not fun and not entertainment. It is loosing money with the illusion that you could beat someone on that table and you can't. You only can when you extercise when you do it as a job or when you have a gambling addiction and spend your hard earned money every money there and just losing losing losing. Now back to the slot machines: Those are even more fucked up. I really mean fucked up. I thought you can play with them like different subgames, a little bit of reaction or choses but there non. And i mean non. 0 Zero non. You have one button to press (which is more or less your 'losing money button') and another row of buttons to increase the amount you are 'betting'. Wtf? There is no emotional value in sitting in front of a slot machine, pressing a button and losing money. Yes everything else, getting fucking drunk in a bar next door and pucking the shit out of you or just sitting at home and watching tv has more value to live than sitting in front of a digital machine and pressing a button. And no that has nothing to do with 'save' life. and it has nothing to do with 'enjoying themselves'. Casino work because people get addicted. Casinos work because they have enough audiance arround it which gives the addicted people the feeling that they are not alone. But thats it. And its horrible.
Geekette 9y ago
"...if the stats the media are stating is correct, every 6th employee in the industry would also be addicted (using the definition of addiction used from chemical substance abuse). Since there is no measurable difference in addiction levels for employees (who spend 40hrs per week interacting with slots) and players who spend less time, the addiction argument looses its basis. Your premise is false: The article states the serious addiction rate as 1 in 6 people who play the slots regularly based on Australian govt statistics. Also, employees paid to interact with slots for work purposes (building, testing, QA, etc) are not equivalent to other people who proactively go to casinos and pay to play for leisure purposes.

sigi45 9y ago

Do you have much experience in taking a look who is playing your slot machines? I mean do you really go to places and check it out for a few hours? Here in germany there are small casinos. Not real casinos but with a few machines like 5-20. I went to such a place because there was a pool table in thenext room. I saw, while playing pool, how a few people used multil machines at once, feed those machines 10Euros and more (around 11$) in a quick feshion. Do you think, that those people, who play on a saturday afternoon enjoying this? i mean do you really think "yes the experience im providing for them through my job is is an activity they enjoy and the enjoyment stands in relation to the amount of money they are spending". I only thought "holy shit, poor people, throwing there hard earned money away" I felt sorry for those people. so sry that i was thinking if or how i could approach them. My pool table for 2 hours and 4-5 drinks was cheaper of what one person was putting in those machines. I think they are addicted.

xwvvvvwx 9y ago

I mean, I guess you have to think like that to do the work you do, but are you really disputing the existence of gambling addiction? It seems like a pretty well documented phenomena by now.

vim_wannabe 9y ago
>I guess you have to think like that to do the work you do I don't think you need to start this on a free to play/social networking site/on-line shopping developer forum.
- xwvvvvwx 9y ago
  Yeah that was a bit much. Shouldn’t post before I’ve had my coffee.

ACow_Adonis 9y ago

Out of pure curiousity, got any sources for me to read regarding 2). Just because I read it and thought: "You know what, that would be one hell of an interesting study/experiment...". Because every possible finding: whether industry involvement/employment had the effect of increasing demand, decreasing demand, or being totally irrelevant/representative of the population at large, would be an interesting outcome...

DonHopkins 9y ago

4) people have a natural tendency to arrange cocaine into nice straight lines. There is a natural high people get when they complete a snorting job. I've worked with 3 big coke dealers, and none of them had paid physicians on call - there is no need.

celticninja 9y ago

Drinking is a voluntary activity but we still have alcoholics, gambling addiction is the same. Of course no one is forcing people to gamble but similarly no one is forcing a heroin addict to keep taking the drug.

uh_what 9y ago
Not the best examples considering both alcohol withdrawal and heroin withdrawal can be fatal.

mr_turtle 9y ago

2. I used to work in the gaming industry too (not slots). If you're on the other side you just realize in the long run gambling is a losing proposition so you won't be pursuing the activity as hard. Also that job is a consistent stream of income. 3. Yes, but they are designed to be as addictive as possible. I'm quite appalled by online slots (Android, iPhone) where no money is at stake, but coins can be purchased, and the amount of coins purchasable is adjusted based on how much you play. I'm thinking Zynga based games primarily. 5. That's fair but a weak argument. 100% of people who go to the theatre or eat out spend money, but the amount is fixed and known up front. I guess you can say the same for slots when the payout percentage is up front, but still, Vegas wasn't built by giving away money.

albertgoeswoof 9y ago

> Its not planned, it just works out that way Oh come on, this is some doublethink if ever I saw it. > Every 6th employee in the industry would also be addicted No- the employees would be out of a job if the addicts werent in there, they see both sides of the coin, winners and losers, and have a completely different perspective on gambling. If anything I’d expect employees to be more immune to addiction than anything else. Your arguments 4 & 5 can be applied directly to hard drugs without modification. I don’t think gambling or what you do is immoral, but if your line of thinking is how you justify your job you should think again as it sounds like it doesn’t match up with your own morals.

pc86 9y ago
There is an important distinction between "program these 30 machines such that every 5 someone gets a pay out" and "program this machine such that 1 out of every n pulls is a pay out."
jstanley 9y ago
> Your arguments 4 & 5 can be applied directly to hard drugs without modification. That doesn't make them bad arguments. His arguments 4&5 are perfectly fine arguments, even when applied to hard drugs.
DonHopkins 9y ago
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -Jessica Rabbit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnNvnViJpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnNvnViJpo

halhen 9y ago

Having worked with data analytics in problem gambling for ten years, your dismissal of the addictiveness of these games is either uninformed or rationalized, most likely both. Recent research in Sweden shows that some 75% of online casino turnover are from what can be loosely described as moderate risk gambling (PGSI3+) and approximately 50% from problem gambling (PGSI8+). Similarly about 25% of regular (monthly) players are problem gamblers. Of those who start playing slots monthly, 10% develop gambling problems within a year. These are bad numbers. Really bad. And they match my experience from million-players-+ databases of actual gambling data. The most significant marker to predict gambling problems is the amount wagered, say per month. The more someone plays, the higher the risk of that person having gambling problems. About 10% of players make up 80% of the turnover; about 0.1% about 10%. The Pareto principle at play, sure, but combined with the former it basically says that you can't trust the industry for advice on problem gambling. This is not your safe-little-hobby thing, and the amount players who really enjoy them are much, much, much fewer than you make it sound. The majority of the industry's revenue come from people who would like to stop but can't. This is by any useful definition neither rational nor voluntary. The main claim of the industry is "informed choice" and the users' responsibility to take control, despite loss of control being the very definition of the illness. This is another tobacco-industry-like example of society slowly realizing the hidden costs being pushed by a powerful industry to unknowing and often vulnerable third parties.

smallstepforman 9y ago
Human psychology studies are a tricky thing, where everyone only focuses on data which matches their preconceived notions. I'm sure that some university group has researched the cost of fashion addiction, music addiction, car addiction, holiday addiction etc. yet no-one is talking about the social cost of fashion/collections/other vices people may have. There was a large Casino court case in Australia a couple of months ago and the "experts" (if they can be called that) couldn't prove that gambling was an addictive activity, since a large portion of playerswho participated in 'gambling activities' could not be classified as addicted. Since the prosecution couldn't prove the slot machines were addictive, the case against the Casino was dropped (lots of expert testimony ended up being dismissed).

zyx321 9y ago

2) Employees are paid by the hour, they have no emotional investment in the outcome of a spin. 5) There are people who can gamble responsibly. They literally don't matter. They are small fry. Their money does not build those opulent Vegas palaces. It's all about the whales, the high rollers.

lordfoom 9y ago

This is some serious PR. "Oh we're just about giving people cheap entertainment, it's a total coincidence we profit hugely off the misery of others."

hermanhermitage 9y ago

2) The employees are not gambling, so they are not exposed to the addictive product. 3) Incorrect. Standalone progressives and linked progressives adjust the payout based on the outcome of previous games. Either the jackpot is awarded and reset, or the increment is added and will be available as a future payout. Furthermore some markets have had a history of compensators (eg fruit machine markets / awp).

DonHopkins 9y ago
>Furthermore some markets have had a history of compensators (eg fruit machine markets / awp). What do you mean by "compensators" and "fruit machine markets / awp", please? Another dumb question I was too embarrassed to ask in a real casino, but everybody in the gambling industry probably already knows: I've never read a slot machine "instruction manual", and the instructions on the slot machines in Amsterdam are in Dutch. So my experience is just walking up to them and pressing the buttons to learn how they work. Some times when you put money into a slot machine, it starts out in this mode where it's only blinking between a few numbered lights but doesn't spin the slots, and it seems stuck in that mode, since I can't reliably get it out of that mode by pressing all the buttons. But sometimes I can, and it's not clear what I did that I didn't do those other times. Sometimes I'm able to press enough buttons to get it out of that dumb mode and back to spinning the slots as I expected, but some times I just have to eject my money and move on to another machine. Sometimes a machine will start out in this mode, not spinning the slots, but not usually, and other nearby machines of the same type will act normally (spinning the slots the first time you use them). What's going on? Is there a reset button around the back of the machine that I don't know about? It seems like a really boring game, and I can't imagine anyone would become addicted to that mode.
- hermanhermitage 9y ago
  A 'Compensator' is an element that dynamically controls the payout typically based on the current 'hold'. The hold being the amount of money in the machine. If I recall 'Barcrest' has a range of patents covering compensators. (For those interested). AWP is Amusement with Prize(s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusement_with_prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusement_with_prize Not sure about the Dutch market. I recall a game shipping to Netherlands called 'Golden Goals', so I believe they have class 3 gaming machines (at least in Casinos?). Its possible the machine you are talking about has the BET (per line) set high, so that your current CREDIT amount is insuffient to activate all the available LINES. On most modern video slots there is a BET per line, a possible ANTEBET a number of LINES to wager on. The total STAKE = BET * LINE + ANTEBET. The LINE lights (or BET lights in USA) will illuminate based on which valid bets. My advice is press the collect button, take your money and buy yourself a drink :) Gaming machines work on 'Negative Compound Interest' - thats all you need to know. If you keep re-'investing' you will only end up with a $0 balance. Finally every Jurisdiction typically operates on different rules. These rules are normally publically available. For instance NSW Australia has their rules outlined at: http://www.liquorandgaming.nsw.gov.au/Pages/gaming/gaming-machines/operating-a-gaming-machine/designing-a-gaming-machine.aspx http://www.liquorandgaming.nsw.gov.au/Pages/gaming/gaming-ma... This covers the national standards that are generally applicable to machines in Australia and New Zealand, and then variations and specializations for the particular market of NSW - management protocols, jackpot behaviour, prohibited features etc.

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago

About point number (4) I don't think anyone said you have psychologists on call. Slot machines have been around for hundreds of years. Obviously, someone has figured out how to best make them work. The industry clearly has the know-how to make addictive games that hook players in: if it didn't, then its machines would not be as addictive as they are. Unless we want to pretend the machines got so addictive by chance, alone. About point number (2) I really don't get what you mean here. Do you mean industry employees are gamblers themselves, or that they gamble as part of their job? I'd appreciate a clarification. About point number (5) I don't gabmle and I've never played any slots. The reason for this is that I can tell there's no way to come on top. If I play slots and win more than the house wins, then the house is losing money. So for slots machines to be profitable, players have to lose moeny. And if they weren't profitable, there wouldn't be any of them around. Since there are, it must mean players lose their money. So the people who gamble on slots either: (a) don't realise they can't win, or (b) can't help themselves despite knowing. That doesn't sound to me like an activity in which informed, responsible adults engage.

red75prime 9y ago
Utility of money is nonlinear, so it could be rational to throw out a small amount of money for the expectation of large payoff. Of course, it means you should never play again, when you have thrown out sufficiently large quantity of money.
thinkingemote 9y ago
I agree with you about the house always winning, and I also don't gamble, however you can consider the activity as a game like an arcade game where the actual playing and spending time costs money, and has value in its own right. I guess the economics is slightly more nuanced, just how you can find addictive computer games which also cost like world of Warcraft I guess
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
  Good point, but the way I see it there are two parts to a gambling game: (a) the physical rewards (blinkenlights, twinkly noises etc) and (b) the monetary rewards. If the physical rewards were enough of a draw in and of themselves, I think we could reasonably expect there to be a market for games that don't involve money. For instance, I could imagine smaller, cheaper slot machines sold directly to players, to take them home and feed them coins all day, just to see the pretty lights (I mean they could get their coins back at the end of the day). The fact that there doesn't seem to be any serious interest in that sort of game machine tells me that the monetary rewards are the primary purpose of play.

csydas 9y ago

> 5) its a voluntery activity. There are lots of people who enjoy the activity, the excitement, the thrill, etc and they’re responsible enough to only wager less than the cost of a theatre ticket. Sometimes they finish the night with more money than they brought in. Its a regulated activity for adults. I'm not really sure that it's voluntary. My last several trips to Vegas I was surprised by the new number of pamphlets placed just about everywhere around the casinos (probably by law) that state in very short and simple terms how bad your odds of winning are and that gambling is not meant for making money, but it doesn't seem to stop the wave of sad stories in any way - there's an addictive quality to the games, the same that keeps kids spending hundreds or thousands on loot boxes in games. It's predatory, and yes, the gambler themselves do need to make the effort to show restraint, it's not really something that's easily controlled for a lot of the population. I'd posit that those who are able to take the hit of a loss have the same problem and addiction as those who can't take the hit of a loss; they're chasing the same high and the same result, it's just that one has a more generous buffer for failure than the other. Both are equally susceptible to over-spending.

moonbug22 9y ago

Go do something worthwhile with your life.

deleted 9y ago

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sigi45 9y ago

No people don't enjoy it. If they do its your fault, that they enjoy sitting in front of a machine and pressing a button. You are part of the problem. I really mean this. You are similar to a drug dealer, weapons producer or similar people. You are part of an Industrie no one needs and makes our society a little bit less good every day. And yes everyone taking part in one way or another is responsible for it.

freeloop3 9y ago
There are some people, you know, that don't have the physical ability to do much else to get the same amount of entertainment in their lives. Casinos are a boon to seniors, giving them a chance to go somewhere where they can actually enjoy themselves with worrying too much. Jesus, how many sharp edges to we have to round over to make sure that adults live a "safe" life, according to your standards?
- sigi45 9y ago
  Just to be clear: i was never in a casino before until this year when i went to Canada (i'm from germany). I was always under the assumption, that a casino is fun. Something you don't do that often, you go there to loose money and eat and drink and see people and have a little fun. When you play poker in a casino, that is somehow okayisch but on an edge: The casino gets a fair share for providing a table and a dealer. Fair i think because i had to pay 10% exchange fee or something similiar. Its fine. But than i went to a table and i lost my money way way way faster than i could grasp. Srsly fast. Like wtf fast. 100$ gone in 15 minutes. Why? Small blind was small, big blind was only 2 dollars but everyone played for 5 dollars min. Seeing the flop 5$. The dealer is quick like hell. One round doesn't take long. I went to the casino with a clear limit. I didn't change the limit, i didn't increase it, i didn't went back to an AT&T. But with a reasonble limit in place, you don't have fun in a casino for long. No way. Loosing 100$ i worked my ass of in under an hour? No srysl no. This is not fun and not entertainment. It is loosing money with the illusion that you could beat someone on that table and you can't. You only can when you extercise when you do it as a job or when you have a gambling addiction and spend your hard earned money every money there and just losing losing losing. Now back to the slot machines: Those are even more fucked up. I really mean fucked up. I thought you can play with them like different subgames, a little bit of reaction or choses but there non. And i mean non. 0 Zero non. You have one button to press (which is more or less your 'losing money button') and another row of buttons to increase the amount you are 'betting'. Wtf? There is no emotional value in sitting in front of a slot machine, pressing a button and losing money. Yes everything else, getting fucking drunk in a bar next door and pucking the shit out of you or just sitting at home and watching tv has more value to live than sitting in front of a digital machine and pressing a button. And no that has nothing to do with 'save' life. and it has nothing to do with 'enjoying themselves'. Casino work because people get addicted. Casinos work because they have enough audiance arround it which gives the addicted people the feeling that they are not alone. But thats it. And its horrible.

Geekette 9y ago

"...if the stats the media are stating is correct, every 6th employee in the industry would also be addicted (using the definition of addiction used from chemical substance abuse). Since there is no measurable difference in addiction levels for employees (who spend 40hrs per week interacting with slots) and players who spend less time, the addiction argument looses its basis. Your premise is false: The article states the serious addiction rate as 1 in 6 people who play the slots regularly based on Australian govt statistics. Also, employees paid to interact with slots for work purposes (building, testing, QA, etc) are not equivalent to other people who proactively go to casinos and pay to play for leisure purposes.