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One thing I appreciate about the internet is that it will make articles like this searchable for future generations, so that they can see that every generation

One thing I appreciate about the internet is that it will make articles like this searchable for future generations, so that they can see that every generation says the same things. Kids these days are weenies, politics are worse, prices are too high, etc etc etc. Rinse and repeat.

ocfx 9y ago
It's a little bit different here because universities are actively discouraging free debate by forcing students and professors to walk on eggshells around other students due to fear of reprisal. It is very authoritarian in nature and difficult to rebel against due people being branded morally who disagree with it.
ruytlm 9y ago
Yes, there's always an element of that; there's the classic Socrates* quote to fall back on. That said, there does appear to be a noticeable shift in children's upbringings, away from the unsupervised 'free range' approach. I quite liked the take I saw a few years back, that blamed much of it on lawyers; whether they're actually to blame is another question: https://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/lawyers-made-your-kids-fat-fearful-and-bored/ https://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/lawyers-made-your-kids-fat-f... [edit: allegedly not Socrates: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-children-in-ancient-times/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-childre... ]
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  >I quite liked the take I saw a few years back, that blamed much of it on lawyers; whether they're actually to blame is another question: Blaming lawyers for anything is always popular, but this is pretty much entirely a result of the media (and politicians, for different reasons) doing things to portray a number of risks to children as having much greater incidence than they actually have and being increasing in occurrence when they were in fact decreasing, and sustaining that over a period of several decades, creating a popular perception of the risk profile (and consequently the responsible actions given that risk profile) very divergent from reality. Insofar as lawyers were involved at all, it was simply leveraging the popular perception thus created to get favorable outcomes in cases, but they weren't the ones creating the beliefs in the first place.
flukus 9y ago
I don't think you can categorize this as a typical "kids these days" rant, this isn't about disrespecting elders or having different tastes in music, this is a fundamental change in how parenting works and how much freedom kids have lost that could (arguably is) have a profound impact on their lives. I couldn't imaging being a kid today, not being able to walk/bike to school, not being able to take the dog to the park, not being able to ride our bikes to the beach and learning what happens to bikes when you ride them through salt water, not able to go fishing with a bunch of friends, not able to go camping with them. Aside from all the lessons learned and battle scars along the way, we also had to work out what we wanted to do, plan ahead and then do it, we didn't jump in the car, play games on our tablet for 20 minutes and materialize somewhere else with all the equipment we needed. Freedom simply develops so many real world skills that are invaluable.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  > we didn't jump in the car, play games on our tablet for 20 minutes and materialize somewhere else My nieces and nephews largely have no idea how to get anywhere. Ask them what direction to travel to get from one place they go regularly to another place they go regularly and they won't have a clue. It could be five blocks south. It could be 20 miles north. They literally have no idea. Stop somewhere along the route and ask them what direction to go, likewise. They're just completely lost. And yep, I blame it partly on in-car entertainment. When I was a kid, even when I was being driven somewhere, I was paying attention to the route and surroundings. The rest of it has to do with never having walked, biked, or taken public transportation anywhere.
  - ocfx 9y ago
    I think we also see this phenomenon on people who rely too heavily on GPS. They become complacent while they are fed directions from their phone or vehicle and never actually learn how to get where they are going.
  - AndrewDucker 9y ago
    When I was a kid I read books in the car. And never had any idea what direction we were going in. (Except when I wanted to. At which point the map my parents kept in the seat-back pocket was incredibly useful.)

ocfx 9y ago

It's a little bit different here because universities are actively discouraging free debate by forcing students and professors to walk on eggshells around other students due to fear of reprisal. It is very authoritarian in nature and difficult to rebel against due people being branded morally who disagree with it.

ruytlm 9y ago

Yes, there's always an element of that; there's the classic Socrates* quote to fall back on. That said, there does appear to be a noticeable shift in children's upbringings, away from the unsupervised 'free range' approach. I quite liked the take I saw a few years back, that blamed much of it on lawyers; whether they're actually to blame is another question: https://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/lawyers-made-your-kids-fat-fearful-and-bored/ https://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/lawyers-made-your-kids-fat-f... [edit: allegedly not Socrates: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-children-in-ancient-times/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-childre... ]

dragonwriter 9y ago
>I quite liked the take I saw a few years back, that blamed much of it on lawyers; whether they're actually to blame is another question: Blaming lawyers for anything is always popular, but this is pretty much entirely a result of the media (and politicians, for different reasons) doing things to portray a number of risks to children as having much greater incidence than they actually have and being increasing in occurrence when they were in fact decreasing, and sustaining that over a period of several decades, creating a popular perception of the risk profile (and consequently the responsible actions given that risk profile) very divergent from reality. Insofar as lawyers were involved at all, it was simply leveraging the popular perception thus created to get favorable outcomes in cases, but they weren't the ones creating the beliefs in the first place.

flukus 9y ago

I don't think you can categorize this as a typical "kids these days" rant, this isn't about disrespecting elders or having different tastes in music, this is a fundamental change in how parenting works and how much freedom kids have lost that could (arguably is) have a profound impact on their lives. I couldn't imaging being a kid today, not being able to walk/bike to school, not being able to take the dog to the park, not being able to ride our bikes to the beach and learning what happens to bikes when you ride them through salt water, not able to go fishing with a bunch of friends, not able to go camping with them. Aside from all the lessons learned and battle scars along the way, we also had to work out what we wanted to do, plan ahead and then do it, we didn't jump in the car, play games on our tablet for 20 minutes and materialize somewhere else with all the equipment we needed. Freedom simply develops so many real world skills that are invaluable.

Turing_Machine 9y ago
> we didn't jump in the car, play games on our tablet for 20 minutes and materialize somewhere else My nieces and nephews largely have no idea how to get anywhere. Ask them what direction to travel to get from one place they go regularly to another place they go regularly and they won't have a clue. It could be five blocks south. It could be 20 miles north. They literally have no idea. Stop somewhere along the route and ask them what direction to go, likewise. They're just completely lost. And yep, I blame it partly on in-car entertainment. When I was a kid, even when I was being driven somewhere, I was paying attention to the route and surroundings. The rest of it has to do with never having walked, biked, or taken public transportation anywhere.
- ocfx 9y ago
  I think we also see this phenomenon on people who rely too heavily on GPS. They become complacent while they are fed directions from their phone or vehicle and never actually learn how to get where they are going.
- AndrewDucker 9y ago
  When I was a kid I read books in the car. And never had any idea what direction we were going in. (Except when I wanted to. At which point the map my parents kept in the seat-back pocket was incredibly useful.)