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>People already have a sense that things aren't fair. There's a reason why tax reform is polling so poorly. There's a reason why most of the country thinks taxe

>People already have a sense that things aren't fair. There's a reason why tax reform is polling so poorly. There's a reason why most of the country thinks taxes should be higher on the wealthy and corporations. They have a feeling that they are not seeing the rise of productivity in their own life, and they want justice. There's also just the sheer sense of stagnation. I get mildly enraged every time I look at America's idea of a middle-school and high-school curriculum, then compare it to what people learn abroad. How is it that "everyone else" has more leisure, suffers less stress, and still winds up doing harder things than Americans more easily? America has started thinking like a less developed country, that productivity arises from suffering.

curious_fella1 9y ago
> and still winds up doing harder things than Americans more easily Can you elaborate?
- eli_gottlieb 9y ago
  I was in the thread about "lessons from MIT", and thinking of a degree curriculum I looked at from the UK one day. It basically expected that students (who were going to learn PL theory) start off with a higher level of math knowledge (right out of secondary school) than most American CS students have in sophomore year. AFAIK, their students don't suffer as much stress or depression as the cohort of Americans who've done "sophomore-level" math in high school. But for another example, well, every other country seems to have an easier time running a working train system than America does, including those who are running top-of-the-line high-speed rail. Or, to take another, the French have one of the highest per-hour productivity rates on Earth, but take four to six weeks of vacation each year. Likewise, the Germans have one of the most productive economies on the planet, but work some of the shortest hours. Again and again, we find a principle that efficient, productive, intelligently-arranged systems deliver greater results with less sturm und drang.
  - ajdlinux 9y ago
    > But for another example, well, every other country seems to have an easier time running a working train system than America does Going somewhat OT, but in contrast, America seems to have an easier time running a working freight train system than most other countries.
    - Spooky23 9y ago
      But ironically to most business types, freight rail is one of the more heavily regulated and unionized industries in the US.
  - ajslater 9y ago
    The difference in educational levels is economic. If you correct for the income & wealth levels of the international district and match them to american districts with similar levels, you have similar academic results. There's no gap. The issue occurs with taking averages. The United States is a rich country or a developing country depending on where you look. Few other modern industrialized nations are run this way. Indeed, if you want the best education in the world, many people come to the American universities (public and private). These American Universities which you can name, sit like jewels surrounded by the serfdom education many Americans experience. It is the same with primary and secondary education.
    - tripzilch 9y ago
      > The difference in educational levels is economic. If you correct for the income & wealth levels of the international district and match them to american districts with similar levels, you have similar academic results. There's no gap. So you do learn two extra languages in high school? > The issue occurs with taking averages. The United States is a rich country or a developing country depending on where you look. Few other modern industrialized nations are run this way. That's because it's nothing to be proud of. Your country will be judged by how you treat the lowest, worst-off people. Having a couple of "rich" parts[0] doesn't make it look better. Indeed there is no sense taking averages for these issues. Some people think they're doing better with the median, but that still hides the poor long tail. If (for purposes of central planning etc) you really do need a single number and the minimum isn't useful because it's zero, there is one statistic and it's called modal income. > Indeed, if you want the best education in the world, many people come to the American universities (public and private). These American Universities which you can name, sit like jewels Well, people all over the world used to. Like you say they have the name. Give it ten years. Less if you elect Trump again. [0] where the homeless (and mentally ill) are either cleaned out, hidden, or simply ignored. It's not like the rich parts of the US suddenly take care of them. A real rich country needs to deal with this too, can't just scrub them from the statistics and hope the unavoidable poor people will move to the next country over because they can't afford living here any more.

curious_fella1 9y ago

> and still winds up doing harder things than Americans more easily Can you elaborate?

eli_gottlieb 9y ago
I was in the thread about "lessons from MIT", and thinking of a degree curriculum I looked at from the UK one day. It basically expected that students (who were going to learn PL theory) start off with a higher level of math knowledge (right out of secondary school) than most American CS students have in sophomore year. AFAIK, their students don't suffer as much stress or depression as the cohort of Americans who've done "sophomore-level" math in high school. But for another example, well, every other country seems to have an easier time running a working train system than America does, including those who are running top-of-the-line high-speed rail. Or, to take another, the French have one of the highest per-hour productivity rates on Earth, but take four to six weeks of vacation each year. Likewise, the Germans have one of the most productive economies on the planet, but work some of the shortest hours. Again and again, we find a principle that efficient, productive, intelligently-arranged systems deliver greater results with less sturm und drang.
- ajdlinux 9y ago
  > But for another example, well, every other country seems to have an easier time running a working train system than America does Going somewhat OT, but in contrast, America seems to have an easier time running a working freight train system than most other countries.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    But ironically to most business types, freight rail is one of the more heavily regulated and unionized industries in the US.
- ajslater 9y ago
  The difference in educational levels is economic. If you correct for the income & wealth levels of the international district and match them to american districts with similar levels, you have similar academic results. There's no gap. The issue occurs with taking averages. The United States is a rich country or a developing country depending on where you look. Few other modern industrialized nations are run this way. Indeed, if you want the best education in the world, many people come to the American universities (public and private). These American Universities which you can name, sit like jewels surrounded by the serfdom education many Americans experience. It is the same with primary and secondary education.
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    > The difference in educational levels is economic. If you correct for the income & wealth levels of the international district and match them to american districts with similar levels, you have similar academic results. There's no gap. So you do learn two extra languages in high school? > The issue occurs with taking averages. The United States is a rich country or a developing country depending on where you look. Few other modern industrialized nations are run this way. That's because it's nothing to be proud of. Your country will be judged by how you treat the lowest, worst-off people. Having a couple of "rich" parts[0] doesn't make it look better. Indeed there is no sense taking averages for these issues. Some people think they're doing better with the median, but that still hides the poor long tail. If (for purposes of central planning etc) you really do need a single number and the minimum isn't useful because it's zero, there is one statistic and it's called modal income. > Indeed, if you want the best education in the world, many people come to the American universities (public and private). These American Universities which you can name, sit like jewels Well, people all over the world used to. Like you say they have the name. Give it ten years. Less if you elect Trump again. [0] where the homeless (and mentally ill) are either cleaned out, hidden, or simply ignored. It's not like the rich parts of the US suddenly take care of them. A real rich country needs to deal with this too, can't just scrub them from the statistics and hope the unavoidable poor people will move to the next country over because they can't afford living here any more.