5 ms·

This is pretty harsh critique. I first got on the web in 1992 and what we have now is a paradise compared to what we had then. Sure, you may have to look with i

This is pretty harsh critique. I first got on the web in 1992 and what we have now is a paradise compared to what we had then. Sure, you may have to look with intent for what you want, but freely coasting around the web has always carried liabilities. It used to be "you'll find lots of junk" and the junk has simply diversified since then. I also noticed the author doesn't even use a single hyperlink in his own article. Be the change you want to see. I was just checking out Project Rho. Before that I was building a link page of my own because I'm getting into ham radio. The old web we love is still here and it'll always be around in some form.

jstimpfle 9y ago
I don't think the author talks about hyperlinks. It's fine to have pages without them. What links do you miss?
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  > Some bigger websites at the time were like mazes with some of the words on each page hyperlinked to other pages on the site that were about each of those separate topics, and you had to open up multiple links from each page otherwise you'd lose them, and you wanted to read every word.
  - nandemo 9y ago
    This was a nightmare before tabs were a thing.
    - millstone 9y ago
      why?
      - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Follow a link, lose your place and have to start over.
        brlewis 9y ago
        I don't get this. What's wrong with the back button plus visited link colors? I feel like the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and the number of open tabs makes things more confusing.
        yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Usually, the next page also has interesting links, and the tree quickly becomes painful to traverse.
        brlewis 9y ago
        You click an interesting link, read it, click the back button, then click the next unvisited link. Where's the pain and how would tabs make it less?
        yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Because what actually happens is I click an interesting link, read it, find a couple interesting-looking links, click them, read the first, see another 3 interesting links (on the now 2 levels-deep nested page), click them, notice that one of them links to a category or tag that's relevant to what I'm looking at (which has, on most wikis, dozens of pages)... In short, sufficiently high branching factor means that neither depth first nor breadth first search can keep up without a lot of memory. EDIT: Note that, at over 100 tabs per browser session, I am probably an extreme edge case. :)
      - nl 9y ago
        The combination of the instability of Windows 3.1/95, terrible window management, 14"/15" monitors and uncontrolled pop-up windows was dreadful. Windows NT made the browser crashing your computer a little less common. Linux wasn't any better - the only graphical browser then for Linux was Netscape, and and that was even less stable on Linux than on Windows.
  - dfps 9y ago
    One notable example from the 90s that I was referring to with this statement was a site that had many, many pages about unusual science/mystery/gnosis/anarchism. I haven't been able to locate it. (- the author)
    - willgriffin 9y ago
      I know the one you mean. It disappeared a while back, but maybe some of these will help: http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/realitycarnival.html http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/realitycarnival.h... https://josephmatheny.com/ https://josephmatheny.com/ http://theanarchistlibrary.org/special/index http://theanarchistlibrary.org/special/index https://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/practical_experiments.htm https://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/practical_experimen...
    - bitwize 9y ago
      Was it ZetaTalk? Ah, the 90s internet, where kookery and legitimacy stood side by side.
      - cobbzilla 9y ago
        you're right - the kookery and legitimacy is no longer side by side, it's now stacked and you scroll through it on social media ;)
    - zephyrfalcon 9y ago
      There is this one that sort of fits the bill: http://www.sacred-texts.com/ http://www.sacred-texts.com/ But that might not be the one you mean... I recall one with a black background... hmm. /edit/ I also found this one: http://www.crystalinks.com/ http://www.crystalinks.com/ ...I (probably badly) archived a copy of it around 2000/2001, back then many pages had dark graphical backgrounds. It seems that has changed. There was also the Temple of the Screaming Electron, which has since disappeared. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOTSE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOTSE
dfps 9y ago
Actually, it wasn't meant as a critique, as I like most people highly value the modern internet. I will be putting in more internal hyperlinks as I have more pages on the website to link to. Most of the articles there are still in progress, and this one is a sort of introduction to the HN community (which is my main source of news and analysis these days). Please link me to your ham radio site when you get it ready for us. I'm also building a list of these types of blogs/sites. (- the author)
outsidetheparty 9y ago
> what we have now is a paradise compared to what we had then Here's how I recall it: Back in the day, you'd search for subject {$foo} and you would find mostly websites written by some cranky bearded weirdo who is obsessed with {$foo}, who has devoted weeks of his time to personally collating his every thought about {$foo} into one ghastly-looking site. Nowadays, you search for {$foo} and find mostly beautifully template-designed pages of text written by indifferent fiverr freelancers who had about 20 minutes to stuff in as many keywords into as many column inches wrapped around as many ad slots as possible before moving on to the next subject. I know which one I prefer. (I may exaggerate. But only slightly.)
- always_good 9y ago
  > Nowadays, you search for {$foo} and find mostly beautifully template-designed pages of text written by indifferent fiverr freelancers who had about 20 minutes to stuff in as many keywords into as many column inches wrapped around as many ad slots as possible before moving on to the next subject. Yeesh, does anyone else have this opinion? I sure don't. It's never been more trivial to find good, enriching content. How many of these posts are just HNers getting more crotchety in their old age? Sometimes it just seems like a pissing contest for who can be most cynical. ;)
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    I have to agree with you that I generally don't see those kinds of pages as well. Sure, they exist, and I do stumble on them from time to time, but most of the time I will find what I'm looking for, often with a wealth of user comments as well.
  - outsidetheparty 9y ago
    > more crotchety in their old age I will willingly cop to this. But seriously, genuinely yes, the internet is full of a lot more content-free clickbait than it used to be. Because clickbait didn't used to be a thing that existed.
  - donatj 9y ago
    Having worked for a company that helped a myriad of other companies write shitty clickbait content, I agree with the commenter. The majority of content on The web now is written by people who don’t really give a shit about the topic and have nothing new to say on it, the only reason it exists is to drive clicks, SEO. It used to almost entirely be populated by people who actually cared.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

jstimpfle 9y ago

I don't think the author talks about hyperlinks. It's fine to have pages without them. What links do you miss?

themodelplumber 9y ago
> Some bigger websites at the time were like mazes with some of the words on each page hyperlinked to other pages on the site that were about each of those separate topics, and you had to open up multiple links from each page otherwise you'd lose them, and you wanted to read every word.
- nandemo 9y ago
  This was a nightmare before tabs were a thing.
  - millstone 9y ago
    why?
    - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
      Follow a link, lose your place and have to start over.
      - brlewis 9y ago
        I don't get this. What's wrong with the back button plus visited link colors? I feel like the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and the number of open tabs makes things more confusing.
        yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Usually, the next page also has interesting links, and the tree quickly becomes painful to traverse.
        brlewis 9y ago
        You click an interesting link, read it, click the back button, then click the next unvisited link. Where's the pain and how would tabs make it less?
        yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Because what actually happens is I click an interesting link, read it, find a couple interesting-looking links, click them, read the first, see another 3 interesting links (on the now 2 levels-deep nested page), click them, notice that one of them links to a category or tag that's relevant to what I'm looking at (which has, on most wikis, dozens of pages)... In short, sufficiently high branching factor means that neither depth first nor breadth first search can keep up without a lot of memory. EDIT: Note that, at over 100 tabs per browser session, I am probably an extreme edge case. :)
    - nl 9y ago
      The combination of the instability of Windows 3.1/95, terrible window management, 14"/15" monitors and uncontrolled pop-up windows was dreadful. Windows NT made the browser crashing your computer a little less common. Linux wasn't any better - the only graphical browser then for Linux was Netscape, and and that was even less stable on Linux than on Windows.
- dfps 9y ago
  One notable example from the 90s that I was referring to with this statement was a site that had many, many pages about unusual science/mystery/gnosis/anarchism. I haven't been able to locate it. (- the author)
  - willgriffin 9y ago
    I know the one you mean. It disappeared a while back, but maybe some of these will help: http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/realitycarnival.html http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/realitycarnival.h... https://josephmatheny.com/ https://josephmatheny.com/ http://theanarchistlibrary.org/special/index http://theanarchistlibrary.org/special/index https://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/practical_experiments.htm https://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/practical_experimen...
  - bitwize 9y ago
    Was it ZetaTalk? Ah, the 90s internet, where kookery and legitimacy stood side by side.
    - cobbzilla 9y ago
      you're right - the kookery and legitimacy is no longer side by side, it's now stacked and you scroll through it on social media ;)
  - zephyrfalcon 9y ago
    There is this one that sort of fits the bill: http://www.sacred-texts.com/ http://www.sacred-texts.com/ But that might not be the one you mean... I recall one with a black background... hmm. /edit/ I also found this one: http://www.crystalinks.com/ http://www.crystalinks.com/ ...I (probably badly) archived a copy of it around 2000/2001, back then many pages had dark graphical backgrounds. It seems that has changed. There was also the Temple of the Screaming Electron, which has since disappeared. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOTSE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOTSE

dfps 9y ago

Actually, it wasn't meant as a critique, as I like most people highly value the modern internet. I will be putting in more internal hyperlinks as I have more pages on the website to link to. Most of the articles there are still in progress, and this one is a sort of introduction to the HN community (which is my main source of news and analysis these days). Please link me to your ham radio site when you get it ready for us. I'm also building a list of these types of blogs/sites. (- the author)

outsidetheparty 9y ago

> what we have now is a paradise compared to what we had then Here's how I recall it: Back in the day, you'd search for subject {$foo} and you would find mostly websites written by some cranky bearded weirdo who is obsessed with {$foo}, who has devoted weeks of his time to personally collating his every thought about {$foo} into one ghastly-looking site. Nowadays, you search for {$foo} and find mostly beautifully template-designed pages of text written by indifferent fiverr freelancers who had about 20 minutes to stuff in as many keywords into as many column inches wrapped around as many ad slots as possible before moving on to the next subject. I know which one I prefer. (I may exaggerate. But only slightly.)

always_good 9y ago
> Nowadays, you search for {$foo} and find mostly beautifully template-designed pages of text written by indifferent fiverr freelancers who had about 20 minutes to stuff in as many keywords into as many column inches wrapped around as many ad slots as possible before moving on to the next subject. Yeesh, does anyone else have this opinion? I sure don't. It's never been more trivial to find good, enriching content. How many of these posts are just HNers getting more crotchety in their old age? Sometimes it just seems like a pissing contest for who can be most cynical. ;)
- Klathmon 9y ago
  I have to agree with you that I generally don't see those kinds of pages as well. Sure, they exist, and I do stumble on them from time to time, but most of the time I will find what I'm looking for, often with a wealth of user comments as well.
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  > more crotchety in their old age I will willingly cop to this. But seriously, genuinely yes, the internet is full of a lot more content-free clickbait than it used to be. Because clickbait didn't used to be a thing that existed.
- donatj 9y ago
  Having worked for a company that helped a myriad of other companies write shitty clickbait content, I agree with the commenter. The majority of content on The web now is written by people who don’t really give a shit about the topic and have nothing new to say on it, the only reason it exists is to drive clicks, SEO. It used to almost entirely be populated by people who actually cared.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]