4 ms·

Ok. I'll bite. Where, in the linked NYT article, is evidence that Kremlin gave orders to do X and not Y (rather than just cash) to Milner?

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> evidence that Kremlin gave orders to do X and not Y Again, you're moving the goalposts. Others [1][2][3] have directly responded to you on this point. Arguing that there is no need for alarm until some undefined threshold of red-handed evidence is attained is silly. If a state-backed investor invests in your company, and you don't know about it, that's cause for alarm in itself. It means you need to review, very carefully, what you told whom, when, and what actions you took at their behest. From a corporate level, it's similar to what e.g. SpaceX would be expected to do if it discovered Lockheed Martin invested in it through a front. At a national level, state involvement adds extra dimensions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631661 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631645 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631654
- YuriNiyazov 9y ago
  In that case, I am really confused about what the point that's being made here is. > If a state-backed investor invests in your company, and you don't know about it, that's cause for alarm in itself. Is the only difference between today and yesterday is that yesterday there was no direct evidence that rich people associated ("backed by", "working in" - I am not sure what terminology you prefer to suggest nefariousness) with the Kremlin gave Milner cash to invest? If that's the concern, then, once again - anyone who believed yesterday that Milner was not $funded (once again, insert preferred terminology) at least partially by the Kremlin is an idiot. All they had to do was ask someone who is an immigrant from the Soviet Union.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > anyone who believed yesterday that Milner was not $funded (once again, insert preferred terminology) by the Kremlin is an idiot Then more of us are idiots than you give credit for :). At the very least, I was an idiot and pg was an idiot [1][2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143894 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3144475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3144475
    - smsm42 9y ago
      I have very hard time smart man as pg doesn't know how Russian money works. However, he may also be smart enough to not discuss his investor's affairs in public under his own name.
    - jacobolus 9y ago
      PG likely had a pretty good idea where the money came from (i.e. Russian mobsters/oligarchs with direct ties to Putin). But you don’t get to be a big-time VC by turning down giant piles of shady foreign money.
    - postramus 9y ago
      Without making any specific accusation I would simply point out that the user with whom you have been conversing is present in [1] and playing the “it’s no big deal” card even then.
      - dang 9y ago
        This crosses into personal attack, even though you don't specify what you're insinuating. That breaks the HN guidelines, which ask you to be civil and assume good faith, so please don't comment like this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        postramus 9y ago
        Fair enough but on a site inhabited by intelligent, skeptical people it’s hard to follow those rules when the topic has become “was pg being disingenuous, willfully blind, or simply naive on that day, 6 years ago, when he announced partnership with his mysterious Russian money man?”
  - virtuabhi 9y ago
    > In that case, I am really confused about what the point that's being made here is. I think you are being intentionally ignorant. Maybe you have rationalized that it doesn't matter if the money comes from authoritarian regimes because it pays your bills.
    - YuriNiyazov 9y ago
      There's no response to your statement that would lead anywhere. I believe that every American VC fund has objectionable limited partners even when they are not authoritarian regimes and no VC-funded company has clean money coming in. All those Monsanto and Goldman pension funds have to be parked somewhere. The obvious response is that I am deflecting or that "two wrongs don't make a right" or something like that. The only implication would be that I rationalized away all ethics by working in the industry.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> evidence that Kremlin gave orders to do X and not Y Again, you're moving the goalposts. Others [1][2][3] have directly responded to you on this point. Arguing that there is no need for alarm until some undefined threshold of red-handed evidence is attained is silly. If a state-backed investor invests in your company, and you don't know about it, that's cause for alarm in itself. It means you need to review, very carefully, what you told whom, when, and what actions you took at their behest. From a corporate level, it's similar to what e.g. SpaceX would be expected to do if it discovered Lockheed Martin invested in it through a front. At a national level, state involvement adds extra dimensions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631661 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631645 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15631654

YuriNiyazov 9y ago
In that case, I am really confused about what the point that's being made here is. > If a state-backed investor invests in your company, and you don't know about it, that's cause for alarm in itself. Is the only difference between today and yesterday is that yesterday there was no direct evidence that rich people associated ("backed by", "working in" - I am not sure what terminology you prefer to suggest nefariousness) with the Kremlin gave Milner cash to invest? If that's the concern, then, once again - anyone who believed yesterday that Milner was not $funded (once again, insert preferred terminology) at least partially by the Kremlin is an idiot. All they had to do was ask someone who is an immigrant from the Soviet Union.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > anyone who believed yesterday that Milner was not $funded (once again, insert preferred terminology) by the Kremlin is an idiot Then more of us are idiots than you give credit for :). At the very least, I was an idiot and pg was an idiot [1][2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143894 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3144475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3144475
  - smsm42 9y ago
    I have very hard time smart man as pg doesn't know how Russian money works. However, he may also be smart enough to not discuss his investor's affairs in public under his own name.
  - jacobolus 9y ago
    PG likely had a pretty good idea where the money came from (i.e. Russian mobsters/oligarchs with direct ties to Putin). But you don’t get to be a big-time VC by turning down giant piles of shady foreign money.
  - postramus 9y ago
    Without making any specific accusation I would simply point out that the user with whom you have been conversing is present in [1] and playing the “it’s no big deal” card even then.
    - dang 9y ago
      This crosses into personal attack, even though you don't specify what you're insinuating. That breaks the HN guidelines, which ask you to be civil and assume good faith, so please don't comment like this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - postramus 9y ago
        Fair enough but on a site inhabited by intelligent, skeptical people it’s hard to follow those rules when the topic has become “was pg being disingenuous, willfully blind, or simply naive on that day, 6 years ago, when he announced partnership with his mysterious Russian money man?”
- virtuabhi 9y ago
  > In that case, I am really confused about what the point that's being made here is. I think you are being intentionally ignorant. Maybe you have rationalized that it doesn't matter if the money comes from authoritarian regimes because it pays your bills.
  - YuriNiyazov 9y ago
    There's no response to your statement that would lead anywhere. I believe that every American VC fund has objectionable limited partners even when they are not authoritarian regimes and no VC-funded company has clean money coming in. All those Monsanto and Goldman pension funds have to be parked somewhere. The obvious response is that I am deflecting or that "two wrongs don't make a right" or something like that. The only implication would be that I rationalized away all ethics by working in the industry.