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> Societies need to take care of their citizens and ensure they receive, if nothing else, fair treatment under law and approximately equal opportunity. I'm not

> Societies need to take care of their citizens and ensure they receive, if nothing else, fair treatment under law and approximately equal opportunity. I'm not sure what you mean by "approximately equal opportunity", since the circumstances of life are so different it seems delusional to me to hope for equal opportunities for everyone. But I do agree on the concept of fair treatment under law, and I believe it's a fundamental basis for the notion of justice. I just don't believe poverty necessarily results from any unfair treatment, and that as such its prevention or mitigation is not society's duty.

thaumaturgy 9y ago
This is still dodging the point that societies don't survive long with large numbers of poor, unhappy citizens. But anyway, your belief doesn't agree with reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSH9_IWeSK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSH9_IWeSK4 "Terry Bossert, Range’s vice president for legislative and regulatory affairs, told a Pennsylvania Bar Institute gathering in Harrisburg earlier this month, that the company tries to avoid siting its shale gas wells near “big houses” where residents might have the financial resources to challenge the industrial-type developments." http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-oil-and-gas/2016/04/18/Executive-s-remark-about-shale-gas-well-sites-prompts-sharp-criticism-calls-for-review/stories/201604180027#link_time=1461017155 http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-oil-and-gas/2... "I’m a public defender. It’s impossible for me to do a good job representing my clients." https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-public-defender-system-isnt-just-broken--its-unconstitutional/2015/09/03/aadf2b6c-519b-11e5-9812-92d5948a40f8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-public-defender-... "How companies make millions off lead-poisoned, poor blacks" https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/how-companies-make-millions-off-lead-poisoned-poor-blacks/2015/08/25/7460c1de-0d8c-11e5-9726-49d6fa26a8c6_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/how-compa... "I make a lot of poor financial decisions. None of them matter, in the long term. I will never not be poor, so what does it matter if I don’t pay a thing and a half this week instead of just one thing?" https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/your-brain-on-poverty-why-poor-people-seem-to-make-bad-decisions/281780/?single_page=true https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/your-br... "How municipalities in St. Louis County, Mo., profit from poverty" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/?hpid=z2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/... "As Court Fees Rise, The Poor Are Paying The Price" http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fees-punish-the-poor http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fee... I have 5,233 carefully-organized bookmarks in Pinboard. I can keep doing this for a while. The fact of the matter is that poverty by itself is unfair treatment. Those living in poverty automatically have fewer judicial options in legal disputes, bear an unfair proportion of costs in legal matters, have their communities unfairly targeted by exploitative businesses that know the citizens don't have the resources to fight back, and are subjected to poorer nutrition and harmful living environments which virtually guarantee that those people born into poverty will also die in it -- and of it.

thaumaturgy 9y ago

This is still dodging the point that societies don't survive long with large numbers of poor, unhappy citizens. But anyway, your belief doesn't agree with reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSH9_IWeSK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSH9_IWeSK4 "Terry Bossert, Range’s vice president for legislative and regulatory affairs, told a Pennsylvania Bar Institute gathering in Harrisburg earlier this month, that the company tries to avoid siting its shale gas wells near “big houses” where residents might have the financial resources to challenge the industrial-type developments." http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-oil-and-gas/2016/04/18/Executive-s-remark-about-shale-gas-well-sites-prompts-sharp-criticism-calls-for-review/stories/201604180027#link_time=1461017155 http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-oil-and-gas/2... "I’m a public defender. It’s impossible for me to do a good job representing my clients." https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-public-defender-system-isnt-just-broken--its-unconstitutional/2015/09/03/aadf2b6c-519b-11e5-9812-92d5948a40f8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-public-defender-... "How companies make millions off lead-poisoned, poor blacks" https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/how-companies-make-millions-off-lead-poisoned-poor-blacks/2015/08/25/7460c1de-0d8c-11e5-9726-49d6fa26a8c6_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/how-compa... "I make a lot of poor financial decisions. None of them matter, in the long term. I will never not be poor, so what does it matter if I don’t pay a thing and a half this week instead of just one thing?" https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/your-brain-on-poverty-why-poor-people-seem-to-make-bad-decisions/281780/?single_page=true https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/your-br... "How municipalities in St. Louis County, Mo., profit from poverty" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/?hpid=z2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/... "As Court Fees Rise, The Poor Are Paying The Price" http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fees-punish-the-poor http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fee... I have 5,233 carefully-organized bookmarks in Pinboard. I can keep doing this for a while. The fact of the matter is that poverty by itself is unfair treatment. Those living in poverty automatically have fewer judicial options in legal disputes, bear an unfair proportion of costs in legal matters, have their communities unfairly targeted by exploitative businesses that know the citizens don't have the resources to fight back, and are subjected to poorer nutrition and harmful living environments which virtually guarantee that those people born into poverty will also die in it -- and of it.