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Hi Vasili - I don't think you understand. He bought an office building on Wall Street in the mid-1990s for $1 million. That's a price so low that it's shady. As

by vonnik 9y ago

Hi Vasili - I don't think you understand. He bought an office building on Wall Street in the mid-1990s for $1 million. That's a price so low that it's shady. As usual with Trump, he buys real estate at prices that don't make sense unless you assume there's another half to the trade. Then he borrows money against the building's supposed increase in value and uses that debt as income without an income tax. His deals are all funny numbers. I see you're also an apologist for Facebook's approach to Russian ads during the election.

vasilipupkin 9y ago
do you have any evidence that buying an office building on wall street for 1 million in the 90s is a shady price that doesn't make sense? also, how in the world did you bring facebook into this conversation?
- tomjakubowski 9y ago
  It’s not just “an office building”, it’s a 71 story skyscraper. Even setting aside its highly desirable location a $1M price makes no sense. The thing is, though, that the only source I can find for the $1M purchase price is Trump’s own mouth, while bragging about its real value (hundreds of millions), and we know he lies and exaggerates all the time.
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    Ok, so either way my point stands. There is no evidence whatsoever that something illegal is taking place ? The op posted this article http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is-sold-to-trump.html http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is... So apparently he bought it roughly for market price ?
    - vonnik 9y ago
      How is 1/8th of the price "market price"? Quite the opposite. You seem to have trouble addressing facts here. EDIT: Responding to your answer below. You are materially misreporting the substance of the NYT article, which I find to be telling. It says that the building was sold for $8 million two years before, and that Trump paid "less than" that.
      - vasilipupkin 9y ago
        Did you read the article you posted ? Where does it say he bought it for 1/8th the price ? It doesn't say that anywhere in your article
    - undersuit 9y ago
      >There is no evidence whatsoever that something illegal is taking place ? Why would you want evidence that something illegal was taking place if something illegal was taking place? Sure in the absence of evidence I do believe we cannot declare anyone guilty, but the presumption of innocence doesn't mean we can't cast suspicion.
- vonnik 9y ago
  He bought it for 1/8th of the price it sold for two years earlier. During those two years, the US economy was on an upswing. http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is-sold-to-trump.html http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is... And the building looks like this: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-trump-40-wall-street/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-trump-40-wall-street... It's a shady price, and a shady building, because he now rents it out to crooks like himself. (See Bloomberg piece.) In the future, do your own research. It's just a Google away. I bring up your Facebook comment because this is the second time you've come down on the side of the Kremlin and the conman they helped plant in the White House. It's an interesting pattern. Edit: Responding to your comment below due to limits on nested comments on HN. 40 Wall is a well known center of criminal activity. "Since Donald Trump took over 40 Wall St. in 1995, prosecutors have filed criminal charges against at least 29 people connected to 12 alleged scams tied to the building. Nine other firms have faced serious regulatory claims. Authorities prevailed in most but not all of the cases." Trump also housed Trump University there, as well as Trump Mortgage, which shuttered the year before the 2008 crash. Trump paid $25 million to settle charges of fraud against Trump U. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-university-settlement-approved-gonzalo-curiel-236756 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-university-sett... This isn't the only Trump property associated with large-scale crime. Trump's Taj Mahal casino was fined a record amount in 2015 for violations of anti-money laundering regulations, because it claimed to have lost records of all transactions for years. http://fortune.com/2015/02/11/trump-taj-mahal-casino-settles-u-s-money-laundering-claims/ http://fortune.com/2015/02/11/trump-taj-mahal-casino-settles... Trump has effectively led and profited from an international money-laundering syndicate for years. He is the leader of an organized crime family. He became president of the US with the help of dirty money and dirty tricks. Much coming from Russia.
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    your whataboutism is a classic kremlin maneuver. What about this and what about that ? The fact that I defended Facebook's handling of Russian ads in an unrelated online discussion has nothing to do with the fact that your specific argument about details of a specific deal is bullshit. You said he bought it for 1 million and he bought it for 8. Apparently the same price as previous buyer paid ? So we can dispense with this line of reasoning ?
- troupe 9y ago
  Bloomberg claims Trump bought the right to lease the building for the next 60 years or so. Trump does not own the property at 40 Wall Street. He is paying something like $1.5 million per year in rent. He bought the rights to lease the building from someone who previously bought those rights for the mostly empty building for $8 million but were having trouble getting tenants. It isn't clear if Trump bought all of the same rights or if they retained some. The people who previously had the rights to lease out the building paid $8 million, but along with that came the responsibility of paying rent to the landowner. If they hadn't been able to make progress in two years, it doesn't seem outlandish that they would be willing to sell for much less than they paid. Their big expense wasn't going to be the cost of the rights to lease the tower, but the actual cost of leasing the tower (or maybe it is better to say the land the tower sits on) over time. Further, they may have retained some rights that they found valuable so I wouldn't assume that what they bought for $8 million was the same thing Trump says he bought for $1 million. So was the deal "shady"? Not from any information presented in this thread nor from anything that is readily available from a quick search. It could be of course, but the actual facts that are available don't appear to support such a claim.
dang 9y ago
You've stooped to the kind of personal attack that is most unwelcome in HN threads, especially partisan/political flamewars that we don't want on HN in the first place. We ban users that do this, so please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and clean up your act if you want to keep commenting here.

by vonnik 9y ago

vasilipupkin 9y ago

do you have any evidence that buying an office building on wall street for 1 million in the 90s is a shady price that doesn't make sense? also, how in the world did you bring facebook into this conversation?

tomjakubowski 9y ago
It’s not just “an office building”, it’s a 71 story skyscraper. Even setting aside its highly desirable location a $1M price makes no sense. The thing is, though, that the only source I can find for the $1M purchase price is Trump’s own mouth, while bragging about its real value (hundreds of millions), and we know he lies and exaggerates all the time.
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  Ok, so either way my point stands. There is no evidence whatsoever that something illegal is taking place ? The op posted this article http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is-sold-to-trump.html http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is... So apparently he bought it roughly for market price ?
  - vonnik 9y ago
    How is 1/8th of the price "market price"? Quite the opposite. You seem to have trouble addressing facts here. EDIT: Responding to your answer below. You are materially misreporting the substance of the NYT article, which I find to be telling. It says that the building was sold for $8 million two years before, and that Trump paid "less than" that.
    - vasilipupkin 9y ago
      Did you read the article you posted ? Where does it say he bought it for 1/8th the price ? It doesn't say that anywhere in your article
  - undersuit 9y ago
    >There is no evidence whatsoever that something illegal is taking place ? Why would you want evidence that something illegal was taking place if something illegal was taking place? Sure in the absence of evidence I do believe we cannot declare anyone guilty, but the presumption of innocence doesn't mean we can't cast suspicion.
vonnik 9y ago
He bought it for 1/8th of the price it sold for two years earlier. During those two years, the US economy was on an upswing. http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is-sold-to-trump.html http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/07/business/40-wall-street-is... And the building looks like this: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-trump-40-wall-street/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-trump-40-wall-street... It's a shady price, and a shady building, because he now rents it out to crooks like himself. (See Bloomberg piece.) In the future, do your own research. It's just a Google away. I bring up your Facebook comment because this is the second time you've come down on the side of the Kremlin and the conman they helped plant in the White House. It's an interesting pattern. Edit: Responding to your comment below due to limits on nested comments on HN. 40 Wall is a well known center of criminal activity. "Since Donald Trump took over 40 Wall St. in 1995, prosecutors have filed criminal charges against at least 29 people connected to 12 alleged scams tied to the building. Nine other firms have faced serious regulatory claims. Authorities prevailed in most but not all of the cases." Trump also housed Trump University there, as well as Trump Mortgage, which shuttered the year before the 2008 crash. Trump paid $25 million to settle charges of fraud against Trump U. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-university-settlement-approved-gonzalo-curiel-236756 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-university-sett... This isn't the only Trump property associated with large-scale crime. Trump's Taj Mahal casino was fined a record amount in 2015 for violations of anti-money laundering regulations, because it claimed to have lost records of all transactions for years. http://fortune.com/2015/02/11/trump-taj-mahal-casino-settles-u-s-money-laundering-claims/ http://fortune.com/2015/02/11/trump-taj-mahal-casino-settles... Trump has effectively led and profited from an international money-laundering syndicate for years. He is the leader of an organized crime family. He became president of the US with the help of dirty money and dirty tricks. Much coming from Russia.
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  your whataboutism is a classic kremlin maneuver. What about this and what about that ? The fact that I defended Facebook's handling of Russian ads in an unrelated online discussion has nothing to do with the fact that your specific argument about details of a specific deal is bullshit. You said he bought it for 1 million and he bought it for 8. Apparently the same price as previous buyer paid ? So we can dispense with this line of reasoning ?
troupe 9y ago
Bloomberg claims Trump bought the right to lease the building for the next 60 years or so. Trump does not own the property at 40 Wall Street. He is paying something like $1.5 million per year in rent. He bought the rights to lease the building from someone who previously bought those rights for the mostly empty building for $8 million but were having trouble getting tenants. It isn't clear if Trump bought all of the same rights or if they retained some. The people who previously had the rights to lease out the building paid $8 million, but along with that came the responsibility of paying rent to the landowner. If they hadn't been able to make progress in two years, it doesn't seem outlandish that they would be willing to sell for much less than they paid. Their big expense wasn't going to be the cost of the rights to lease the tower, but the actual cost of leasing the tower (or maybe it is better to say the land the tower sits on) over time. Further, they may have retained some rights that they found valuable so I wouldn't assume that what they bought for $8 million was the same thing Trump says he bought for $1 million. So was the deal "shady"? Not from any information presented in this thread nor from anything that is readily available from a quick search. It could be of course, but the actual facts that are available don't appear to support such a claim.

dang 9y ago

You've stooped to the kind of personal attack that is most unwelcome in HN threads, especially partisan/political flamewars that we don't want on HN in the first place. We ban users that do this, so please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and clean up your act if you want to keep commenting here.